In the second part of Mark’s journey through My Immortal, absolutely nothing makes sense. Intrigued? Then it’s time for Mark to slowly harm his imagination with My Immortal.
CHAPTER 7
Ok, this has to be a joke. There is no way someone wrote this with total sincerity. I suppose there’s a part of me that kind of believes that this is possible, but there are these little slips that make me feel that someone intentionally wrote a lot of this in this way.
I can believe (based on my many years of INTERNETING) that people type just like this person does here. There are people who try to imitate exciting, riveting fiction and are simply not good at it. I’ve done my fair share of editing for many, many years, and it’s very easy to identify someone who has no talent at all. This happens. I have unfortunately read too much bad fanfiction and while My Immortal seems to hit all the right buttons, I kind of find that concept a bit suspicious. It’s perfectly written terribly. (That sentence is odd, but I swear it makes sense.) It’s full of so many things specifically designed to offend people. (The AIDS line here in chapter seven seems like one of those.)
That being said…I did absolutely no research on this fic, so please don’t tell me if it was determined to be real or fake. WHERE’S THE FUN IN THAT.
I must be predictable to start this off, because I am slightly obsessed with these:
wel ok u guyz im only writting dis cuz I got 5 god reviuws. n BTW I wont rite da nxt chapter til I git TIN god vons! STO FLAMING OR ILL REPORT U! Evony isn’t a Marie Sue ok she isn’t perfect SHES A SATANITS! n she has problemz shes depressed 4 godz sake!
Yeah! How dare you expect Ebony Way (fuck it I’m shortening that horrible name) to be perfect because….she’s a Satanist? what.
But let’s talk about Mary Sues! What an awful concept, as far as I’m concerned. I mean, it’s always sort of bothered me how it’s been a way for people to instantly criticize women who write fiction, especially when many of us who write insert ourselves into our characters. I understand that there is a way that fanfiction can actually have a character that is a total self-insert and trust me, I will say this a million times in different iterations: I have read them. (Side note: I have read good fanfiction! I recently read a mash-up between Ten (Doctor Who) and Mulder (The X-Files) and it was kind of amazing? NOW I CANNOT FIND IT AGAIN ohhhhhh goooooodddddd)
Well, I’ve now been utterly sidetracked. I think I’m purposely trying to avoid addressing what the hell is going on in this fic
If there was anything that I did not request from the universe, it was reading another section from this particular author wherein Ebony and Draco have sex. Not only does it seem like the author has no idea how sex works, but there are quite a few details that are absolutely nonsensical. May we?
- how can you see red “Satanist signs†on red nail polish. Sorry that is not about sex but like….WHAT.
- Apparently they take off each other’s clothes “enthusiastically,†yet Ebony still has hers on?
- It’s nice that Draco feels her up before she takes off her top. I think? I also apparently know nothing about sex either.
- ARE LEATHER BRAS A THING. Isn’t that a very uncomfortable thing to have clutching your breasts???
- boy’s thingy. I refuse to forgive any of you.
- WHAT IS BLOODY GOTHIC WRITING
- Certainly Draco could be a vampire and not in love with Harry Potter/Vampire? Also WHY DOES HE HAVE A TATTOO OF THAT?
- “He had a really big you-know-what but I was too mad to care.†Oh honey, get your priorities straight.
- “VAMPIRE POTTER, YOU MOTHERFUCKER!†Clearly this needs to be said more often.
CHAPTER 8
stop flassing ok
what does that mean
Draco arrives in Professor Snape’s classroom, completely naked, and says the worst possible thing he could have in this situation:
“Ebony, it’s not what you think!â€
you are naked in Snape’s classroom. Please tell me what I should think.
I’m at a point where this is all so absurd that all I can do is laugh. We’re introduced to B’loody Mary Smith (WHY IS THERE AN APOSTROPHE AGAIN), who is (SURPRISE) very gothic and has gothic hair? Can hair be gothic? But what’s more important is that, without missing a break and without going to a new paragraph, we are immediately told that “Hermione was kidnapped when she was born.†WHAT. And she had vampires for parents? She’s really trying to hone in on this gothic atmosphere. Anyway, Voldemort killed her mother? And she changed her name to Smith and is a Slytherin?
OH I GET IT. HERMIONE = B’LOODY MARY SMITH. I think? Either way, what is this nonsense.
After a decent Snape impression (I can sort of see him calling someone a “ridiculous dimwit,†the author switches the first person narrative to Draco? I think? And he’s bisexual? And he went out with Harry? And it was apparently good enough to get a tattoo of, but not good enough to last?
this is ridiculous
CHAPTER 9
what the holy living fuck is going on.
First of all, in which understanding of the Harry Potter universe is it totally acceptable to scream “Crookshanks!†at someone in order to make them fall off a broom? Is this just an invented spell?
I am so completely and utterly lost, either by design or because this author is the worst of all time. Why is Voldemort in the Forbidden Forest? Why does he want to kill Harry again? Why does he have a fucking broomstick??? He’s Voldemort, he can just float and shit.
It’s a telling sign when the only thing I can even remotely comment on in a story is the fact that Draco and Ebony apparently make out while going into Hogwarts, which seems to me to be an utter physical impossibility. I’m sorry, I like to be not walking while I am having a Make Out Party. Things are unstable enough as it is, and I certainly do not need moving ground beneath my feet to add to it.
I hate this.
CHAPTER 10
Oh great. A heterosexist slur. Awesome.
This chapter is one hot fucking mess. I mean, all of this is, but here we’ve got constant breakage of the fourth wall, a band made up of at least two terrible sounds (I’ve not heard much of MCR’s music, so I can’t make any judgment call on them. I know! I worked at Buzznet. How is that possible. With a lot of willpower, my friends), HARGRID, trivialization of suicide, and this sentence:
…the only way you can kill a vampire is with a c-r-o-s-s (there’s no way I’m writing that) or a steak….
Which just might be the greatest sentence fragment ever composed in the English language.
Ebony wears a lot of leather. Seriously, that has to be uncomfortable.
I cannot be arsed to even deal with anything here, so let me just jump to the end:
Apparently Draco has just committed suicide by slitting his wrists, which Ebony just told us is impossible. And this is not some mind-melting dramatic turn, it’s all just awful.
Christ, I have so much more of this to read. UGH.
CHAPTER 11
Oh my god.
Dumbledore chased after me shouting but he had to stop when I went into my room cause he would look like a perv that way.
who willingly composes a sentence like that.
I am just eleven chapters into My Immortal and I have ran out of things to say, I have no idea how to express shock in varying ways, and I have no idea how to make any sort of commentary on this that is engaging. I am already completely worried that I am going to be boring for the remainder of this week. (As you’re reading this, I’m somewhere in California on a bicycle. Probably in between Santa Cruz and King City. Google Map that shit!)
In short: HOW IS THIS A THING. How does this exist? And how the fuck am I supposed to write about it? I mean, what on earth do you say about Snape (I’m sorry–Snap) and Lupin (wait…Loopin) taping Ebony while she slits her wrists in a bathtub while Lupin “masticatesâ€? So he chews? Is that supposed to be bad? Or “masturbatesâ€?
I have to say that, this early into My Immortal, I feel like I’ve been defeated. I feel like I’ve finally found something that has rendered me completely speechless, with no ideas and with no insight to give any of you.
Plus, she made Hargrid a Satanist who sings gothic 50 Cent songs (????? what does this mean ??????) who is in love with the worst character of all time.
I shall never forgive you, author.
My favorite lines from the section:
"We started frenching passively"
Guys. They frenched PASSIVELY. Is that a typo of passionately? If so, it's probably my all-time favorite typo, intentional or not.
"he put his boy's thingy in mine and we HAD SEX. (c is dat stupid?)"
Yes. Yes, it still is.
I love author's notes like this, because you can just imagine what was going on in the original reviews.
"Draco!" I said. "Hi!"
So, she's just encountered Voldemort and been told that she has to kill Harry or Draco will die, and when she sees Draco, she says, "Hi." Cheerfully. But also probably depressingly, because she's goffik.
Also… why does Voldemort speak in Ye Old English?
""What have you done!" He started to cry wisely."
This may be my favorite line so far. Dumbledore's in character here. You can tell, because only Dumbledore could cry WISELY.
As for Chapter 11, I have nothing to say, except…
"I MAY BE A HOGWARTS STUDENT…" Hargirid paused angrily. "BUT I AM ALSO A SATANIST!"
I never thought you could be defeated after Twilight.
Apparently, I was wrong.
Sooo…you won't be reading Celebrian then?
Troll versus trufax?
The debate has raged for internet centuries.
Personally, I just take immense glee in this. My Immortal is just right up there with badfic legends, and I have a document on my computer dedicated to lines from such gems. I am a conoisseur of these things. There must be at least five occurrences of "wat" per chapter, or they're doing it wrong.
Which is the reason I'm actually happy this horrible thing exists. XD I love the mystery!
We should direct Mark to some site that has documented some of this when he's done with the fic. Poor, brave man. ^^
Are you, perchance, a fan of babb_chronicles?
I haven't been there before, actually–how can I call myself a connoisseur of badfic and not know about this! I am ashamed, but you have righted the wrong.
Brb off to frolic gleefully through fields of badfic
(If you haven't been to these, I recommend WeepingCock and Badfic_Quotes. Weepingcock in particular is just excellent.)
I do frequent WC from time to time, and have even posted there before, though probably under my alter ego. Enjoy the wonders of the Babbness! In my opinion, there has never been anything funnier in the history of the universe.
Mark, I didn't vote for this. Just so you know…
<img src="http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b47/Eirela/1FiveyDWPeterThis-1.jpg">
Yeah I voted for Snape Reads Twilight or The Doctor Reads Harry Potter >=)
This is just plain torture. =(
I've missed the last few days of Mark Reads and have been playing catchup (much to my horror and sick amusement) – but the fact that you posted a picture of Peter Davison pointing to "This" made all this torture worth it. I have never seen that before and it totally made my day. Bless you forever.
That was pretty much my reaction to this picture. Don't remember where I found it, and don't care if it's a shop or whatever, it's pure genius. Glad to have been of some small service! =D
Poor, poor Mark. Here's a tissue to wipe the blood that's dripping from your eyes.
Here's another to wipe the tears of laughter from mine.
I feel like raising your fist and saying, "VAMPIRE POTTER" (YOU MOTHERFUCKER optional) could be the new "BARROWMAN!"
Yay, you got to the masticating scene! My favorite bit and also about where I gave up. Snap's hanging out with a video camera and Loopin's all OMNOMNOM on some of those steaks Enoby was talking about. Classic.
*crying,just crying with laughter*
could be the new "BARROWMAN!"
Wait, this is a thing?
Did Steve Colbert move on to this from raising his fist and shouting "MANILOWWWW!" or "GAIMANNNNN!" ?
It's a David Tennant/Doctor Who thing that he did on Never Mind the Buzzcocks.
<img src="http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz298/sleepy_orange/Gifs/Barrowman.gif">
…I am now informed. Huh.
I am so very very sorry.
I know I should be sorry as well, but I'm enjoying this too much. These reviews are made out of pure awesomeness and I love every word of them. I'll definitely come back to re-read them to cheer me up, like I sometimes do with the Twilight-reviews.
I'm a bad person.
I am sitting here trying to think of some witty retort, but the mere idea that something like this exists—whether real or fake, it EXISTS and it can never UNEXIST—has rendered me utterly incoherent. I am beginning to lose all sense of self and/or my grip on reality. Is this the real…something? Isn't there a thing we say? Wait, where am I? Who are you people?
Ha! This broke your brain. Don't worry. It happens to everyone.
I am incline to think, this author was an evil genius which plan was to break us all. Or a complete ass. Both are completely posible.
Oh God – how did I miss this? I suppose I was too busy with the LotR-fandom to care about the HP-fanfic. But this sounds so horrific it has to be awesome.
I also did not vote for this. I only take comfort in that you are already through this when I read it? At least I hope you are and haven't died from badfic overdose before heading out on your bike.
Soothe your nerves with some DW-reruns!
Robert Smith's wife is called Mary, so props for your goth name, Hermione.
I have no issue with the idea of "Mary Sue" as a concept, but I'm not sure you're perceiving the term right. Granted it's kind of a nebulous term, but the overall definition I've seen is not just a self-insert character. It is perfectly possible for writers to inject themselves into a character or to even create themselves as a character without that character being a Mary Sue.
A Mary Sue is something else, a "perfect" character with no depth and no flaws– and even more importantly, a character who takes over the entire story (and in fanfic, canon) and makes everything revolve around them, regardless of plot, canon, or other character's actual personalities. It's a character who shows up and suddenly every other character is falling over themselves to fawn over him/her. Their only "flaws" are things like "being too beautiful" or being "too selfless." In fanfic, they're usually easily identified by traits that are "cool" — hair that constantly changes colors and eyes that are an impossible color (purple, gold, etc) or that change colors based on emotion are two common signs. Another common trait is having unusual powers, even powers or abilities that don't exist in the canon, or being better at skills than canon experts.
Now, the problem with throwing the term "Mary Sue" around too easily, especially for published fiction, is when it gets applied to characters who may just be very skilled and badass. I have seen this problem with a lot of urban fantasy heroines. I actually think I saw it applied to Katniss in the Hunger Games because she's unusually skilled with a bow. This kind of ignores all the other problematic traits of Mary Sues, and that's when it becomes a way of dismissing awesome ladies. On the other hand, there ARE definitely some Mary Sues in published fiction, so it's a term to be careful with.
Yeah, I think the term gets misapplied a lot. I think some of the confusion comes from fics where the author inserts an original character who happens to fall in love with the author's favorite male or female character and the OC is often Mary Sue-ish. It's also very common to have characters from the book become suddenly so powerful/magical/perfect that they become Mary Sues, even when they aren't originally written that way.
I've read a few published books with Mary Sue (and Gary Stu) characters, and some of them have worked. Some of them…not so much.
I do think that it can be an overused term. I know a person who refers to every OC as a Mary Sue even if they’re not.
No two people can agree on what "Mary Sue" means. The subgroups TV Tropes has are one categorization that persists not because it's definitive but because it's not worth the effort to change it for an unproven categorization. I actually proposed an alternate scheme once, but it didn't pan out.
I would very much like to feel bad for subjecting you to this, Mark. I really would. But I'm not. Not even a little.
I feel like everyone who suffers through this fic earns a badge of honor or some sort of internet award for being a brave little toaster and surviving it. You're on your way to earning yours, sir.
Enoby has layer upon layer of clothing, like a nightmare onion.
It's a particularly apt simile, considering your apparent reaction to exposure.
"Nightmare Onion" so needs to be the name of a goth band.
Nightmare onion.
NIGHTMARE. ONION.
WHY IS THIS THE MOST PERFECT PHRASE OF DESCRIPTION EVER COMPOSED?
I WILL NEVER LET THIS GO.
NIGHTMARE ONION!
Nightmare onion.
Genius.
You have just made it as far into the fic as I have, I couldn't make it past Lupin and Sanpe being weirdo peeping Toms. This "story" was just too much for me, and I willing read all the Twilight books!! And have sat through truly awful movies (some twice because I forgot why I thought they were awful in the first place!) but this fic truly defeated me as well. And I have read some BAD fanfiction (Naruto fanfiction, srsly…) but this is just brain-breaking and everything hurts. =( (<– There are not enough sad faces in the world…)
Oh Lord, Sanpe, (I meant Snape!) I'm just as bad as the My Immortal author!!! OH NOES!!!! o.O
Mary Sues never struck me as misogynistic, and I still don't think they are. The problem with a Mary Sue is that she's a perfect and super speshul snowflake, not her gender. Hermione is the brightest pupil in Hogwarts, Katniss is highly skilled with her bow – yet no one (seriously) considers them as Mary Sues.
Bella Swan and Enoby, however, have every trait of a Mary Sue. Their appearances are unusual (Bella is pale (LIKE A VAMPIRE!!! OMG!!!) despite being from Arizona, Egogy is… well. You've read it.), their names are pretentious, everyone magically loves them, they have no flaws, except forced and unimportant ones and they oftentimes can barely walk due to all the talents they are loaded with.
Mary Sues just happen to be women quite often, but I think FanfictionSnape serves as a male example. He loses his bad characteristics (unfair, ugly face, greasy hair) and becomes a supersexy, sarcastic hero with a golden heart. Then, a lot of fanfiction authors are women, so it's simply more probable that the creator of a Mary Sue happens to be a woman. Criticizing a Mary Sue means criticizing bad writing and boring storytelling, not inserting your *female* self into fiction.
Wait…is Draco a real vampire too or just a wannabe? I missed that, and I really don't want to reread…
Oh, Mark. I'm so sorry. This is about where most people give up — masticating and gothic 50 Cent are just too much for the human brain.
Mary Sues (as FlameRaven said earlier) are a real thing but the term gets misapplied a lot. It's the difference between Ebony and, say, Jo March: one is a author self-insert to whom nothing really bad happens/lots of really terrible stuff happens and she endures and is beloved by the "right" people for her awesomeness and also is awesome at everything, and one is an author self-insert where bad and good things happen and the character experiences actual consequences and is often the one at fault instead of being a victim of other people's jealousy of her awesomeness. If that makes any sense.
"Oops!
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We’re sorry, this site is unavailable, because it has used up its monthly bandwidth. Please try back another time.
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See what you've done, Mark? Now I'll never be able to finish reading this beautiful work of art because just too many people have gone over there. IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT.
Oh, Celebrian. The horror. The horror.
I imagine a leather bra would not be that bad as long as it had some kind of non-leather lining so that you didn't get stuck every time you sweated. But it would be rather warm and more importantly, much less washable than a normal bra.
Then again, people wear chainmail bikinis at conventions, so… clearly someone has found a way to make these things comfortable.
Oh, yeah, I'm sure they're lined (or I hope they are. Or maybe they use baby powder to prevent sticking). I just don't think it'd be very breathable. Now I'm contrasting the benefits of a tightly woven chainmail bikini that would allow for lining and padding, versus a looser woven one that would be lighter and more breathable. I have to wonder if they're comfortable or just tolerable, because people seem to be willing to suffer for their costumes (especially if they're getting paid). It's probably more comfortable if you're used to it.
All of this made be google Carrie Fisher to see if she had anything to say about the metal bikini, and I found out that it was molded plastic that didn't always stay close to her skin, which apparently gave Bobba Fett a view all the way down the bikini bottom (no Hollywood tape back then, I guess). So I'll give tight fitting leather and vinyl some credit for at least sticking to the skin and covering things up!
As far as leather bras go, it depends on the type of leather used, and how well it is fitted to the wearer. Lining it with something also helps, but it's a thing and doesn't have to be uncomfortable.
I suspect, however, that a well-made, comfortable leather bra wouldn't be truly goff, though.
One thing to say:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA forever.
Also, I DIDN'T VOTE FOR THIS. AND I AM SO SO SORRY.
That I'm amused as hell.THAT THIS WILL BREAK YOUR SPIRIT, MARK. IT'S JUST SO BAD.You are so not prepared for the awfulness that will shortly ensue. And by that I mean that has already ensued, as you have already read all of this, haven't you? WELL THAT'S A WASTED SENTIMENT NOW, ISN'T IT.
I have to admit that I spent your entire review laughing my head off. Oh schadenfreude, how you make assholes of us all.
More information on Mary Sues:
http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm
<img src="http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m113/antipuppetkiller/gifs/tumblr_ll70auqb481qf61kv.gif">
<img src="http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j232/shaonshamsul11/Gifs%20Part%202/hayy.gif">
THIS MIGHT BE THE END OF LIFE (I mean Mark Reads) AS WE KNOW IT.
<img src="http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad306/MusicandMonsters/Gifs/shock.gif">
I get offended when people chew food too.
Also, Chapter Eleven deals with serious issues, and is therefore not stupid. That's how good writing works. As long as it deals with serious things, it's good. Just ask the author. She knows what she's doing.
The lovechild of Spanish and Italian, silly? What a silly and baseless accusation. Clearly any product of their union would be a dashing, Romantic lover with enough musical prowess to tame a school of sharks and enough conjugal prowess to tame a school of S(t)ues.
I have never read My Immortal but I can't stop giggling at your reviews.
I can just imagine you going like this.
<img src="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lliolvm7ru1qzgpdg.gif "/>
Perfect .gif is perfect!
Community is such a nice mental antidote to all this – smart, sweet, and intentionally funny.
I'm curious: who are these 'average female readers' who don't like awesome ladies in fiction? I mean, at this point there are whole genres like YA and urban fantasy/paranormal romance that are dominated by female protagonists, who are all generally pretty awesome and kickass. (More variable in YA, but the urban fantasy ladies are usually pretty impressive) and these books are ostensibly for female readers. I can completely believe that there are some outspoken people on the internet complaining about these characters, but… it's the internet. There is always somebody complaining or creating drama about something. But overall… I mean, the books wouldn't sell if people were not buying and enjoying them.
(Also, I am with you on the characters that idiot 13 year olds create. The first couple characters I created were awful, awful Mary Sues too who would do things like get psychic powers for no reason. One of 'em even had the mood-ring eyes thing before I figured out it was a hideous cliche. But you know, that's part of learning about literature and writing.)
This is the point in the story that I had to switch to the dramatic readings, just reading the "story" became unbearable.
So…. this is thoroughly unrelated, but very exciting! I just found out that So You Think You Can Dance is up on Hulu! I was going to have to miss this season, but now I get to watch it!!!!!! If I had that "BEST DAY EVER" gif from Tangled, I would post it!
Oh my gosh! Thank you SO MUCH for pointing this out, I would have never thought to check Hulu for the show. I am beyond excited for this season.
And, uh, My Immortal is awful and stuff. I never could even get myself to think about reading it, the random quotes of it I've seen hurt enough.
Hey now, don't be too harsh on MCR. I like them (end im nawt a goff!!1!) and she is right about one thing – Gerard is hot ;] haha. but it's more his personality that pulls it together.
TIME TO TELL THE TRUTH: I started listening to MCR because of My Inmortal (as background) but I love them now. 'Helena' is one of my favourite songs now.
Related: The Umbrella Academy! I wasn't expecting anything good, but it was.
Woo! I love MCR too! Though I can safely say I have never wished I was related to Gerard while thinking about his sexyness. Although now he's married to Lynz who is made. of. awesome!
Oh Mark. I am so, so sorry you are suffering through this, but it is very entertaining and I can’t stop laughing
Eragon gets called out for his actions all the freaking time in the third book, by Elva, Murtagh, etc. And Elva and Murtagh were presented in an extremely sympathetic way. Eragon actually has a moment in the third book where he's like, "It could so easily have been me who was forced to live with Durza, and who went through Murtagh's life."
Arya calls him out for being overly amorous in the second book too.
I agree with you about Eragon, I feel he is deeply flawed and character in terms of personality and youth, but awesome enough to be the hero of that story, and he does catch a lot of flak for his mistakes. If any character in that book is portrayed as perfect it would be Roran or Nasuada, but I don't mind them because the books do a decent job of getting you into their heads and he manages to flesh out the characters well. Plus it has always made me so happy that a book that was initially written by a 15 year old boy has so many and I mean so many awesome female characters, which is something of a rarity in high fantasy. (and one of my biggest let downs about Tolkien)
I just hate segregating book or anything according to gender, and I think Eragon is book that shows that not all book published must have a target gender.
Oh my god. How did I not know this existed until you started reading it? This is just… horrifying.
But a little hilarious? Look, I don't know.
Maybe Draco slit his wrists with a steak (that's as far as I got in your review, Mark, I'm so so so so so sorry you have to read this…I just realized that bit was pratcially the end, I might as well finish it)
Yeah, I really have nothing to add, either. But I hope you are enjoying your ride across A HUGE CHUNK OF CALIFORNIA, holy crap that's amazing.
I am flummoxed by this whole phenomenon. I've never read any fanfic before and I'm sure lots of it is wonderful and amazing, but this… has lost me.
However, your reviews of it are awesome. I kind of want you to keep going apart from the fact that there is a distinct and problematic lack of Johnny Faa in My Immortal. (NO NO NO I TAKE THAT BACK I DO NOT WANT JOHNNY FAA INSERTED INTO MY IMMORTAL OH NO GOD PLEASE NO) And I really really want to keep reading GC, but I made a vow to myself not to get ahead of you.
Moreover, whilst reading your reviews of this rubbish is enjoyable, witnessing you lose the will to review is emphatically not.
If you need to save yourself, come back to Johnny Faa. He misses you. And he is not goffick, nor sticking his boy thing anywhere.
It hurts for me, someone who has already read HDM, to go without Golden Compass reviews. It must be terrible for those reading with him left hanging like that. I think I zipped through the second and third parts in a couple of days.
You all are so very unprepared.
And Mark, Pullman can and will restore the damage this story has done on your brain.
Yeah, I won't read ahead of Mark, either. But that's okay; I just wrote my OWN Golden Compass fanfic to keep me entertained in the meantime! John Faa is now "B'Rady Mary Smith," a shameless author insert that travels to Hyrule to find the bear's armor, but ends up falling in love with Zelda, Samus, and Princess Peach instead! Thank you, Mark, for opening my eyes to such a wonderful method of literary expression!
B’loody Mary Smith
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, okay, I'm going with theory three from Tough Guide to Fantasyland on how to pronounce this one. Bgluckloody Mary Smith it is.
while Lupin “masticates”? So he chews? Is that supposed to be bad? Or “masturbates”?
HAHAHA oh man, that makes me think of this part from the Pushing Daisies pilot episode (aptly titled "Pie-Lette"). http://youtu.be/JdD13eYjdKU.
As for the term "Mary Sue"… yeah, I have a BIG problem with it. Sure, characters like Ebony Way who are created solely to be perfect wish-fulfillment versions of their authors exist in fanfic, there's no denying that. I've seen it. But where my issue comes is when the term starts getting flung around to mean "female character I don't like", especially when it's directed at canonical characters. It's lost all of its original meaning to me because of this tendency of people to use it in that fashion, and I especially side-eye it because nobody ever seems to use the male equivalents, or they don't get used even half as often if you do see them pop up. Take Doctor Who – I've seen a lot of people slamming River for being a Mary Sue, yet they'll handwave away any attempt to point out that the Doctor and Jack could be considered Gary/Marty Stus. And these dunderheads can't seem to decide if she's too perfect, or horribly flawed and an awful person. MAKE UP YOUR MIND. Hell, even TVTropes, which lists a bajillion different types of them mentions this phenomenon of people using it as shorthand for "female character I don't like." Add in extreme double standards where it's okay for a male character to be smart, powerful, arrogant, skilled, knowledgeable, popular, etc. but if a female character does it HO NOES IT'S A SUE GET YOUR TORCHES AND PITCHFORKS and you just have a big ugly mess of sexism. People are harder on female characters in general, and don't let them get away with the same stuff male ones do, and the Mary Sue thing is a big part of that bullshit.
PUSHING DAISIES. WHYYYYYY *distress*
And you raise a great points about the Mary Sue/ Double standard thing, but the only thing my brain processed was: Y R PEOPLE HATING ON RIVER. RIVER'S AWESOME. STOP THAT PEOPLE. STOP IT NOW.
<img src="http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png">
I think you hit on the thing that probably annoys me the most about what 'Mary Sue' has come to mean: "female character that I don't like". Of course the other labels they also get slammed with are 'bitch' and 'slut' and ohhhhh myyyy goooooddddd, this pisses me off so much. UGH.
Oh my god, Celebrian. I had almost managed to forget that it existed. Now I've remembered again. *weeps*
For the love of all that is holy, no one should read that.
"Masticates" had me in stitches.
I'm sorry for your pain though.
hahahaha, I'd never seen that! How great 🙂
Yeah, but people don't call male characters the equivalent term nearly as often.
IKR? ALL MY CRIES FOREVER THAT THE SHOW WAS CANCELLED. :'( :'( :'( I miss those characters and that world so much.
*wibbles*
The problem is that female characters get labeled as Mary Sues far more often than male characters get called Gary Stus and with far less justification. I cannot think of a single female main character in a single work of fiction that has not been called a Mary Sue. A female character can get called Mary Sue for having the smallest of positive qualities recognized in story. It's often just a way to dismiss women in fiction and (it seems to me) there's an underlying assumption that a female character cannot be smart/strong/pretty etc. or several good qualities in combination without it being an 'annoying' 'unrealistic' 'too-perfect' version of a person. Reeks of sexism.
I definitely agree that the term can be used too casually, but the practice that's most sexist and problematic– labeling any strong female character a Sue, regardless of anything else– to me seems to be more a problem with persisting sexism in society rather than a problem with the term itself. I definitely think it should be used carefully, but I don't see a problem in having such a term around. It's not like the concept is totally unknown in other areas, the term Mary Sue is just the term used in fanfic. It could have ended up as anything, but if Internet history is to be believed, the term was just named after the first widely-recognized Mary Sue.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I agree that the concept exists and is useful, it's just being over-applied to female characters.
Sure, but it's not like you're going to stop that. It seems like the people most prone to misapplying the term are also the younger or more immature sections of fandom. There is always going to be drama on the Internet. That doesn't mean that the drama hounds make up the "average female reader," and honestly, the massive rise in publishing of two female-protagonist-led genres would suggest that the actual average reader doesn't have any objection with awesome ladies in fiction.
BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL STUPID AND OUTDATED AND DON'T HAVE MUCH IN THE WAY OF GOOD TASTE OR AN APPRECIATION FOR STUFF THAT IS UNIQUE AND DOES SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
Says it all.
YES. YES IT DOES. I love that line. Though that isn't saying much, as ALL the dialogue in that show made me deliriously happy. It was pure candy for my ears, so beautifully and cleverly written and UGH it was as close to perfect as any show could ever GET IMO. 🙁 I'll always miss it and mourn for the stories never told. I wish we could get it on Mark Watches.
Also, I've been pronouncing "Pie-Lette" as "Pie-Letay" all along and now I feel foolish because I've only just figured it out.
I lose 20 internets.
It's very clear that the term Mary Sue came first considering how there's no universally agreed upon masculinized name.
But I have seen many of these Marty Stus/Gary Stus, specifically in romance. Hunky underdeveloped flawless Godlike men waiting to sweep you off your feet… or maybe that's just the male version of a manic pixie dream girl.
I can get the two confused.
That is true. But I've also seen male characters called Sues, instead of a male equivalent, because they supposedly are that much worse and aren't deserving of the masculine qualifiers.
…which is also sexism: the best way to insult a man is to compare him to a woman. Because that's how bad it is to be a woman.
Listing non-fanfic, real-life examples is left as an exercise for the reader.
It's a word. I honestly don't think it has anything to do with hating on women. The term is derived from the first example that was widely recognized: a character named Mary Sue. If the character had been named Sam, we'd probably be calling the same concept that. Why was it a woman's name? Because it's mostly women that write fanfic. So, most of the Mary Sues that show up in fanfic will be women. That's not a message against women, that's just a term derived from the facts of the fanfiction environment.
At this point the option is to either use a widely-understood term, which yes, is a woman's name, or to make up something that means the same thing but which no one will recognize. Yes, the word can be misused, but it's a word. Any word can be misused. Just because some people misuse it, doesn't mean the word itself is at fault.
Nicole's comment was a response to the one above. Hyatt said that male Mary Sue's aren't deserving of the masculine qualifiers. So bad that they must be considered woman-like, of the weaker sex? That seemed like a pretty sexist comment to me.
I suppose. I still think most people just use "Sue" because it's the more common term, not misogyny. "Mary Sue" is a very possible name. The male equivalents– Gary Stu or Marty Stu– always feel awkward because they don't feel like real names, they feel like a made-up term. Most fanfic writers are women. While I don't doubt that some of them can be misogynistic, probably most of them aren't.
Thank you, Brieana. That was exactly my point.
Oh god I would have never wished this on anyone. I've wondered myself if someone sirusly thought this was good. I'm trying to picture someone that stupid. I have to believe this is trolling, at least to preserve some faith in humanity.
You know, I have wondered why the Doctor keeps traveling around with these young hot women. Has he ever had a male companion?
Jack and Mickey say hi. 🙂
But yeah, the companions have overwhelmingly been female. Which I'm pretty okay with – yes, in the New Series it's been recontextualized as heteronormative, but what the female companion trend also gives is…female protagonists. In sci-fi. Being awesome all over the place. I can't really object to that. 🙂
Agreed completely.
THIS IS COMPLETELY TRUE.
I also agree. And although the new series is pretty hetronormative when compared to the old one, I still think it's a more interesting and varied take than in a lot of drama.
Shows how much Doctor Who I've watched. I'm there where I'd like the doctor to have a special man friend, but I can't complain with having a strong female protag.
Anyway, does anyone else believe that Amy's shirt didn't go with her hair? I think she should have chosen a different color.
It's like the basilisk – so awful that even looking at it in a mirror will Petrify you. Poor Mark, looking at it head-on.
Badly-written Wolverine is a terrible, terrible Stu, as well.
Oh, My Immortal… So many laughs, and also so many /headdesks.
There are SO many bad fanfictions out there. But also a few gems. You totally have to read The Naked Quidditch Match, as I'm sure many people have recommended already. It's hilarious.
And for people who like Glee, (more specifically Kurt and Blaine), there is this amazing fanfiction called Dalton that's about Kurt's school life at Dalton Academy. It has amazing original characters and it's well written and akjsdhkjdfhgdkgjhd.
Glee haters: please familiarize yourself with the left-hand evacuation procedure. There.
You've run out of things to say, so use gifs!
Turlough? or Aldric?
Aldric. Thank you.
Adric (no l).
Turlough was also supposed to be a schoolboy, but seemed a lot older.
We also had Steven with the first and Ben with first and second. The male/female binary dynamic really gets going from Pertwee through to Baker. But even then we have the Brigadier, Benton, Yates and also the Master.
Turlough was meant to be a school boy?! whut?
Mark, while I'm sorry your going to experience bleeding from your eyes and questions of "WHY ME?!" I'd just like you to know that this is what I thought while being subjected to this, but your commentary is making me piss myself with laughter.
That is all.
Stay Strong…
Look at it this way, Mark. Once you've struggled through this, all your other projects will suddenly be THAT MUCH BETTER.
[youtube A4SCYOvh9zA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4SCYOvh9zA youtube]
here you go. a dramatic reading of it. to um.. save your eyes from having to SEE the bad, you can just… hear it? lol
These are the one's I listened to, they comment (essentially mock) on the story whilst reading it, which makes it way more bearable!
yeah, it was the first one i found doing a youtube search. amazing how many 'dramatic readings' of this.. i cant call it a story, it is just too bad… but amazing how many dramatic readings of it there are!!!!
OMG no. My Inmortal is fun, Celebrian is not. (Well, a bit)
I'm fairly certain this is a case of endless shock and horror. Although someone has to have made this up, I..I just can't accept someone wrote something this hell awful and though THIS IS SOOOO GOOD.
However, if it makes you feel better Mark your writing voice is Matt Smith in my head! No seriously, everything you write I read it as though Matt Smith is saying it.
Maybe you're secretly the Doctor.. that's probably the only reason you can withstand the AWFUL HORROR RADIATING FROM THIS ….THING
A really obvious Gary Stu is Mikael Blomkvist from The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. OMG, he's the greatest journalist! the only man with a conscience in Sweden! all the ladies want him! (and I mean ALL). They even got Daniel Craig for the remake because only James Bond could reach that level of masculinity.
I think this is quite possibly the funniest review I have ever read from you. Its a bit sadistic of me to say that but your reactions are hysterical!
It's things like 'masticating' that makes me think this is all some horrible joke. I mean, in high school (for the most part but also afterwards) when we learnt that masticating was a word for chewing in science, everyone thought it was the most hilarious thing and would say it all the time to piss off/make uncomfortable the teachers because ha ha sexy jokes are funny (and sexy) and all that. I think it's too obvious a typo/misunderstanding/whatever to be real.
On another note, it's happened again, WHERE IS MY LYRA *weeps*
Thank you!
Note to self: WATCH MOAR OLD!WHO. LIKE NOW.<img src="http://i51.tinypic.com/24xmhrr.jpg">
Leela's stories:
The Face of Evil
The Robots of Death
The Talons of Weng Chiang
Horror of Fang Rock
The Invisible Enemy
Image of the Fendahl
The Sun Makers
Underworld
The Invasion of Time
Actually, that's not bad as a journey through a bit of Tom Baker Who, especially if you add The Deadly Assassin to the beginning (The Invasion of Time makes more sense if you do). Underworld is possibly the dullest story ever made and Weng Chiang is brilliant but irredeemably racist (although if you watch it all the way through it does have some mitigating features to the story) – but the rest make for an interesting batch of varied stories.
Can hair be gothic?
I'm picturing hair teased up into the shape of a medieval cathedral….
One of the hallmarks of bad Potterfic is that the authors (using that term in the loosest possible sense of the word) completely fail to understand Hermione's function in the source material. She gets more makeovers and is shown to be adopted more times than all the other characters combined. They can't let her be Muggleborn or have buck teeth or frizzy hair or be completely uncaring about fashion and popularity. It offends their sense of rightness in the universe somehow.
I haven't read My Immortal, so I can't really weigh in on the "troll or not" debate, but I've certainly seen all these horrors appear in other fics. The lumping of them all together in one story is a bit suspicious, but not, I fear, impossible.
With flying buttresses from her shoulders to hold it up…
The sad thing is, I could see that as a mistype of "flowing tresses".
If I were the troll I would totally have tried to work that in.
Wait, why are you reading this instead of The Golden Compass? I was really looking forward to the reviews, especially since I missed yesterday.
Because of this. http://markwatches.net/reviews/2011/05/hello-watc…
They voted for it.
Well that's what I get for not reading markwatches as well.
I don't read markwatches all that often so I missed the vote, too. I wish TGC didn't have to be interrupted.:'(
As far as I know, Mark is cycling across the US for a good cause this week. So I think he did quick reviews of My Immortal and set them up to be uploaded each day.
I think he didn't do that for TGC because he doesn't want to rush those reviews in a weekend. 🙂
That's my guess, anyway.
Yeah, but he still does MarkWatches reviews from what I saw.
The person who suggested you read this is a master troll. XD
However….
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
I didn't mean to be a troll, it was just the first thing that popped into my mind…i don't know WHY it popped into my mind, maybe i was being controlled by some weird entity? T_T
Nah, it's okay. You got me lulz. XD
aw Mark. Please don't be mad at us.
We love you!
I think I made it to like chapter 15 before I couldn't take it anymore.
Oh Mark….Do you have any idea how Twilight could get worse?
If the My Immortal author wrote Twi-fiction :http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5436269/1/Forbiden_Fruit_the_tempation_of_Edward_Cullen
I really, really hope for your sake that you'll do a Golden Compass review soon. You need it.
'Hey, my names Atlantiana'
I literally had to stop right there because I can't stop laughing. I must admit though, I derive great (if somewhat masochistic) fulfillment from reading terminally bad fanfic.
I think Crookshanks was supposed to be the Cruciatus Curse. She fucked that up big time. Took me a couple reads to figure out.
And MCR is good (might avoid their 1st album though) in my opinion. I do not condone the comments of idiot fangirls like her. Of course, if you're not with the author, you're a prep. Period. :/
I think Crookshanks was supposed to be the Cruciatus Curse. She fucked that up big time. Took me a couple reads to figure out.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. That makes sense. You were able to read this multiple times? *is impressed*
I always feel awkward if I tell someone and/or someone finds me reading fanfiction cause it has like a 10000:1 ratio of bad fic vs good, but the good DOES exist! I've read one that was a modern adaptation of Pride & Prejudice and it's pretty awesome. Lizzie is a hardcore ballerina but she injures her leg and can never dance again~ oh the dramz!
I love you Mark.
This review has made me laugh pretty hard, so it made me feel better while i'm sick =3
mark where are you reading this? i thought they deleted it because it had too many bad reviews or something like that
The internet never forgets. Someone reposted it on fanfiction.net, there are dramatic reenactments on youtube, and if you google "worst fanfic ever," this pops right up.
Mark, if you haven't read it already, I recommend the (very short) fanfic 'Doom: Repercussions of Evil'…
Don't get me wrong, I agree with your point and think the term has become much overused, but I thought I'd elaborate.
think it sprouted from the "All Fanfic Writers Are Female" idea, that the majority of self-insert fics back in the day where the term "Mary Sue" first became popular, were female. Therefore, people automatically equate the two (classical conditioning and all that). I've seen many male Mary Sue's, in fact, most of the cast of Twilight can be classified as one, but the majority have been female self-inserts.
I don't think this counts as a Harry Potter fanfiction. I just think it counts as really, really bad.
Can we have more Golden Compass now? Or not until your return?
The term "Mary Sue" came from the trope namer, an OC in a Star Trek fic. Her name was Mary Sue.
That said, there may have been some sexism in action that a female example became the trope namer; how many male examples were overlooked because, duh, men are naturally perfect, don't you know that? Nothing wrong with writing a male OC that everyone loves; that's just what it means To Be A Man!
Dunno if any of you read Slacktivist, but Fred Clarke's ongoing review of the atrocious Left Behind series quickly pegs the two protagonists as Gary Stus. There are two authors, thus there are two Totally Perfect In Every Way male self-inserts. ONe is the greatest reporter of all time, dontcha know, and the other is a manly man commercial pilot at the helm of a fully-loaded 747.
Also, do see the Making Light post entitled "Namarie Sue," which is a great discussion of the trope and offers a link to … I don't know. The forces of Story versus an army of Mary Sues in LOTR fanfic! Yes!
http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004…
I believe flassing was meant for "flaming", which is something most people would want to do to this septic pool.
As for whether this is real or not, don't worry, nobody can spoil you on that because nobody knows. People believe it was intentionally made to be bad, except the authoress has never confirmed anything, only some have spread that rumor because the alternative is worse (like someone said over and over yesterday).
I wish you sanity for the rest of your journey through the darkness in My Immortal.
This is the only thing I was able to latch onto:
"First of all, in which understanding of the Harry Potter universe is it totally acceptable to scream “Crookshanks!” at someone in order to make them fall off a broom?"
and it made me giggle.
Mark, after this, I suggest reading some good fanfiction….The Shoebox Project, mayhaps? Who's with me?
OMG, yes, I'm so with you!
Mark, I'd be happy to recommend good fanfics!
… But most of the ones that I know are of the Remus/Sirius and Grindelwald/Dumbledore persuasion. If you don't mind that.
"Wheel of Time guy"? Do you mean Rand? Because I would disagree about that one. Because holy shit, does Rand ever take flying leaps off the slippery slope.
Like I said, I haven't read Wheel of Time myself and have absolutely no desire to do so, but I've heard Rand's name brought up. If you say he's not, then he probably isn't.
I second "The Naked Quidditch Match". So funny. And, you know, well-written, and at least it uses proper sentence structure and grammar.
Once when I was around 11, I read this fanfiction that said "menstruate" when it probably meant "masturbate". So I guess I could believe that this was written by a real person who at least started out taking this seriously. Maybe she wasn't 17 at all. Maybe she started out really bad, but saw that people took notice of her atrociousness and stopped trying and such. Like it could have been accidentally bad that turned purposefully bad.
I'll stick to that.
Allright, I won't argue that. That reasoning is sexist. But how prevalent is that reasoning? It's not something I'm inclined to get too upset over without seeing actual figures on the different uses of the term. (Which, if anyone does have some good anthropological studies on fanfiction, feel free to link them. I'm always interested in research about internet cultures.)
I said that I'm not talking about the term or the general usage. So I don't care if it's prevalent.
Again, one specific case.
But I'm sure that the rest of the long thread is about the general usage of Mary Sue and all that.
Regarding the Mary Sue thing… some have indeed misused the term to attack more than it is meant to, but some have also tried to twist it into a positive thing.
A Mary Sue is not a strong female character. Their usual behaviour proves this.
A strong female character will go for what she wants. She will struggle along the way. She will prove herself, like any other hero.
A Mary Sue gets what she wants with no more than token resistance.
More: a Mary Sue tends to define herself around the male she is presently pursuing, being pursued by, or bedding. Witness Ebony Way there glomming onto Draco.
A Mary Sue warps the personalities of others to suit her. She is the one who makes stern figures soften because of her unutterable beauty… or turns strong men into chauvinists simply so she can 'win' against a strawman figure.
A Mary Sue would, for instance, be able to make Snape into a gushy, dazzle-eyed romantic if that was the purpose of the story. Or have Sirius spout off 'girls can't fight' type lines so she could lash out and make him humble himself before her.
A Mary Sue is not empowering for women; they frequently belittle canon female characters. The road to feminism is not 'I rise to the top and throw the rest of you under the bus.'
This attitude is typified by a Sue I saw, who despite being placed in a teaching position at Hogwarts, felt compelled to humiliate the female students, and then gloat about having 'won,' while the narrative rather obliviously presented her as being in the right.
A Mary Sue is frequently the 'exception' in this regard; all the other girls can be weak, or stupid, if it means she can stand out against them.
And a Mary Sue has a male counterpart, the Gary Stu – he of the masculine perfection, who can get any girl, slay any foe, without even the slightest bit of effort.
I am a fanfiction author who tries her best not to create Mary-Sues and what you put down as a definition of Mary Sues is spot on. As for this set of chapters, I seriously started considering that this whole thing was written by a troll. Because, I cannot see how someone can destroy Harry Potter in this manner.
The first time I read this I laughed so hard I cried. My sister and I were just lying on the floor, cackling.
I'm reading this and trying to imagine you reading Thirty Hs.
OH GOD WHY WOULD YOU MAKE ME READ SUCH A THING???
My innocence is forever tainted.