In the second chapter of the second book of The Fellowship of the Ring, the Council of Elrond begins and Gandalf tells a story that rivals John Galt in length. Don’t worry, it’s actually good. Intrigued? Then it’s time for Mark to read The Lord of the Rings.
CHAPTER TWELVE: THE COUNCIL OF ELROND
Lords and Stuff
A Play
Act 14
Scene 1
[FRODO appears on stage, walking slowly next to the Bruinen River, appreciating the nature around him. He comes upon BILBO and GANDALF]
BILBO: So, are you ready for the council?
FRODO: I’ve heard it’s sixty pages long.
GANDALF: Shhhhhh. You’re not supposed to know that.
FRODO: Oh, sorry! Sorry about that! Well, I guess I don’t have a choice in the matter.
BILBO: It’ll be fun! There will surely be lots of poems and songs and storytelling!
FRODO: Can’t I just go for a walk around here? It’s so pretty.
GANDALF: NO HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST SUCH A THING. DO YOU NOT WANT TO HEAR MY STORIES.
FRODO: All right, all right, I’m coming!
[FRODO follows the others offstage.]
Scene 2
[We open on the Council of ELROND, hobbits, elves, and men seated on the porch of ELROND. GLOIN, GLORFINDEL, ARAGORN, ELROND, SAM, GIMLI, GALDOR, LEGOLAS, BOROMIR, and other counselors of ELROND are seated about for the Council.]
ELROND: Welcome, all. Thank you for coming.
SAM: We’re on page two, right?
GANDALF: Shush, Sam! Just be patient.
ELROND: We are here to discuss matters of great importance, the least of which are the events that brought Frodo to our door. Glóin, would you like to begin?
GLOIN: Yes, of course. Moria Durin Khazad-dûm Thrór and Dáin Mordor and other words that no one else is going to understand and what am I saying.
FRODO: No, seriously, what are you talking about?
GLOIN: Don’t be rude, Frodo! Anyway, the point I’m trying to make: Things were okay in Dáin until a horseman from Mordor arrived and made us an offer: give us information about hobbits, where they dwelt, and other such things, and he would offer us rings.
[The group gasps in horror.]
ELROND: I assume you did not take such an offer!
GLOIN: No! We refused twice, and the horseman was more perturbed each time. Also, we have no idea why he even offered us a second and third chance? Seriously, he could have just wasted the whole city. Hmmm. Apparently Sauron wants to do things “fairly.”
ELROND: I almost thanked Sauron, but then I remembered why we are here. Actually, on that note, I’ll just assume all of you don’t know shit about this little meeting, so let me tell you the entire story of Sauron and the Rings of Power.
SAM: Um….Elrond?
ELROND: Yes, Sam Gamgee?
SAM: Gandalf has a forty-page speech coming up. Can your storytelling occur through a whimsical passing of time?
ELROND: Fair enough. Now you all magically know the whole story!
[The group looks perturbed by the newfound information.]
ELROND: Also, I should add that through this story, you’ll learn that I am mysteriously a million times older than I should be, and I won’t provide any rational reason as to how that’s possible.
FRODO: Sounds fine to me.
ELROND: I’ll also use the word “weregild” a lot and you won’t understand what it means.
GANDALF: Really, at this point, should we even care? I daresay we shouldn’t!
FRODO: So, what should we do next, then?
GANDALF: Hold on, my young, adventurous hobbit. I’ve got a lot more lecturing to do. Are you all prepared for a history lesson????
SAM: Oh, great. By the way, where are Pippin and Merry? Are they even mentioned at all? Are they off hiding? These are important questions! WHAT IF THE BLACK RIDERS FOUND MERRY AGAIN???
GANDALF: That’s not as important as EVERYTHING REGARDING ISILDUR. I’m going to continue rattling off information that actually is important, but becomes increasingly hard to keep track of because there isn’t a single narrative break in nearly thirty pages. Are you following me?
FRODO: I have a headache.
BOROMIR: Now, you just hold on one minute. I’ve got some information, too. I know that the Enemy has arisen as well, and I’ve seen smoke rise from Mount Doom. Not only that, but Mordor waged war against us! I have come with news of such things.
SAM: No, seriously, where are Merry and Pippin?
BOROMIR: It took me one hundred ten days to arrive here, all by myself, to seek your advice, Elrond, about this war with the Enemy. I have been guided by a poem I learned in a dream, which is totally a reliable piece of information all of the time.
ARAGORN: It just so happens that by coming here, that poem is fulfilled! Well, isn’t that wonderful?
FRODO: There sure are a lot of poems and songs around.
ELROND: Frodo, let us not forget that why we are all here. It’s time you brought the Ring out.
[Silence falls once again amongst those of the council.]
FRODO: You just gotta put me on the spot, don’t you?
[FRODO reaches into his pocket and slowly withdraws. He opens his hand and the Ring is sitting in the middle of it.]
ELROND: Behold Isildur’s Bane!
SAM: That….that is like the coolest exclamation I’ve ever heard. Can I start using that?
ARAGORN: It’s pretty damn good. I won’t deny that.
BOROMIR: I’m still unsure what we’re all talking about. What do I do about the Enemy? I traveled one hundred ten days to get here! Do you expect the guy who has traveled one hundred and ten days to just turn around with only the explanation of a dream riddle? Come on!
ARAGORN: Look, I’ve been to some weird places and seen some weird shit, man. But this is all coming together. I will reforge the Sword and return with you.
BOROMIR: But wait, how do I know that the ring that Frodo has is the Ring?
BILBO: Allow me to tell you all my side of the story in what amounts to a literary montage!
FRODO: And then allow me to do the same!
SAM: I’m beginning to be disturbed that none of you care about our friends.
FRODO: Gandalf, it’s your turn! You’re the one holding back the most information!
GALDOR: I haven’t said a single thing this whole time, but allow me to speak up now to agree with Frodo. Dude, you’re holding out on us. Spill the beans!
GANDALF: Fine, fine. But I want all to remember that it was Galdor and Frodo who begged this of me.
SAM: Oh, damn it. You two fell for it! Now he’s going to tell us a story!
ARAGORN: Get comfortable, everyone. This one’s a doozy.
BOROMIR: I don’t know what y’all are talking about.
GANDALF: Well, let me start off by saying that, if you recall, I helped send the Necromancer out of the Mirkwood while Bilbo was heading to defeat Smaug.
BILBO: Yeah, you never did tell me what you were doing when you could have been helping me out.
GANDALF: Right, well, the Necromancer was Sauron.
ARAGORN: Son of a motherless bumblebee.
SAM: Behold Isildur’s Bane!
ELROND: That’s….that’s not how that works.
SAM: Oh. Sorry.
GANDALF: Right, well, Sauron knows the Ring still exists, but does not know we have it; the advantage is ours.
FRODO: Great! So what do we do next?
GANDALF: Shush, I still have a lot more story to tell. If you recall, there is another great wizard, Saruman the Wise, that is even greater than I. It turns out that I was betrayed by him.
[GANDALF quiets in shame for a moment before continuing.]
GANDALF: Yes, even great Gandalf the Grey makes mistakes, and I misjudged both Saruman and Gollum, and those mistakes cost us dearly.
SAM: Was one of those mistakes forgetting about Pippin and Merry? That seems like a mistake.
ARAGORN: Pay attention. We are discussing the events that led to me capturing Gollum and Gandalf coming to interrogate him.
SAM: Wouldn’t that be the worst interrogation of all time?
FRODO: Sam, be quiet, Gandalf is….wait. Wait, he’s got a point. How do you interrogate someone who talks like Gollum?
GANDALF [glaring at FRODO and SAM]: Well, I might be able to tell you if you’ll allow me to finish my story.
FRODO and SAM: Sorry!!!
GANDALF: Aragorn assisted me with bringing Gollum, who I captured, back to the Elves in Mirkwood. There, we held him in captivity for a really long time because I’m a good person and it’s totally cool to imprison a creature because….well, because he was friends with someone we don’t like. Well, not so much friends, as Sauron didn’t treat him well either.
LEGOLAS: Oh, right. So the whole reason I’m here is to reveal that Gollum escaped from prison.
GANDALF: BY MY OWN GREY BEARD, WHAT?
LEGOLAS: I probably should have said something earlier.
GANDALF: YES. YOU PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE. How did that happen?
LEGOLAS: We may have been too nice to him.
GANDALF: Well, that’s awkward.
GLOIN: Yeah, y’all were the opposite of nice to me when I was imprisoned by you.
SAM: Now that’s awkward.
GANDALF: WILL EVERYONE BEHAVE? Legolas, what happened?
LEGOLAS: Well, we took Gollum outside, he climbed up into a tree, and he refused to come down. It was at that moment that we were caught off-guard by Orcs.
FRODO: What are Orcs?
GANDALF: Shhh, you’ll find out….sometime. I don’t actually know.
GALDOR: Can we get back to your story? I feel like a whole year has passed and I still have a lot of questions. Like: What is Saruman’s advice? What does he advise we do, since he is a above you?
GANDALF: Well…I think that may be the true definition of awkwardness. Unfortunately, I sought him out for his counsel; along the way, I ran into Radagast the Brown.
SAM: You wizards aren’t really good at the color thing, are you? Brown, white, grey….not very colorful, eh?
[GANDALF ignores this jab and continues.]: Saruman, the greatest of my order, was right where I expected him to be, far south in Isengard. I ascended the stair of Saruman with him to the Orthanc to get his counsel. And….well.
FRODO: Yes???
GANDALF: Well, his robe was not white, but woven of many colours.
FRODO: I don’t get it.
SAM: Is that a metaphor for saying he’s gay?
FRODO: I don’t think the rainbow meant “unholy homosexual” at this time.
SAM: I’m confused.
GANDALF: The point is….he changed. He was not the same wizard I once knew. He then lectured me on the changing times, and I knew that he had fallen the way of the Enemy. He was no longer on my side.
SAM: I mean, that literally sounds like an argument against being gay.
FRODO: SHUT UP.
GANDALF: So, if you recall, I was gone for some time. Well, Saruman imprisoned me on the pinnacle of the Orthanc. There was nowhere to go from there, and I despaired for many days, pacing back and forth in the little room I had up there.
FRODO: That’s weird. I had a dream about that.
BOROMIR: And we all know how important those are!
GANDALF: Thankfully, Radagast was not of the Enemy; Saruman had deceived him in order to deceive me, so the Eagles of the Mountains, sent by Radagast, found me and rescued me from that precipice.
SAM: You got to ride a giant eagle? That’s not fair!
FRODO: Sam, he was imprisoned at the top of a mountain. I think that’s worse.
SAM: I’m not going to get anything I want, am I?
FRODO: Aren’t you supposed to be hiding this whole chapter? Why are you talking?
SAM: ……..comic relief?
GANDALF: Ahem. If I may continue….[Pauses, waits for silence from an embarrassed SAM]…Gwaihir the Windlord helped me find a proper steed in Rohan to ride away from that wretched place. I managed to make it to Bree just after dear Frodo left, actually! The very first thing I did was go see BARLIMAN BUTTERBUR to find out if he sent that letter to Frodo as I requested.
FRODO: Oh no.
GANDALF: What?
FRODO: Please tell me you didn’t destroy him.
SAM: Yeah, he was rather nice to us.
FRODO: I mean, to be fair, he didn’t send that letter at all.
SAM: Yeah, and he waited until the last possible moment to share it with us.
FRODO: But I like him! Plus, his name is really fun to say. BARLIMAN. BUTTERBUR.
GANDALF: No, the dude’s fine. In fact I hugged him!
FRODO: YAY!
GANDALF: To death.
SAM: HOW DARE YOU DO–
GANDALF: No, I’m just kidding! He’s fine, seriously. Anyway, I made it here to Rivendell before you since you’re impossible to find in this wilderness. And that concludes my story! What would you rate it, Bilbo?
BILBO [who quickly wakes from a nap]: Oh! Oh, it was splendid. Splendid for sure. I loved the part about the dragon the most!
[Awkward silence.]
ELROND: Well, it seems we all have a decision to make. We have all the information we might need. What do we do with it?
GLORFINDEL: I suppose we only have two options: throw it in the Sea, or destroy it.
ELROND: We can’t destroy it here.
GANDALF: And it would still exist at the bottom of the Sea. It would come back.
GLORFINDEL: In like a thousand years! That seems like a long enough time.
SAM: There’s a sea? Where the hell is there a sea?
ELROND: Well, there’s nothing we can do here. I suppose there’s really only one option.
FRODO: What’s that?
ELROND: We send the Ring to the Fire. The one in Mordor.
[Everyone but SAM and FRODO gasp.]
SAM: I don’t get it.
ARAGORN: ONE SIMPLY CANNOT WALK INTO MORDOR.
SAM: …….could we fly into it?
EVERYONE but FRODO and SAM: NO!
SAM: Sheesh, y’all are a vicious bunch!
BOROMIR: I have an idea. Why can’t we just use the Ring to destroy Saruman and Sauron?
ELROND: It doesn’t work that way.
BOROMIR: Why not???
ELROND: Um, duh. Rules of a fantasy novel.
ARAGORN: Aren’t we inventing those rules?
LEGOLAS: I suppose so.
GANDALF: Regardless, anyone who uses the Ring for any reason brings themselves one step closer to taking Sauron’s place. That path only leads to evil.
GLOIN: Wait, so what happens if we destroy the Ring?
ELROND: Well, I suppose we don’t know.
GLOIN: What if it makes Sauron super powerful?
ELROND: I suppose that’s a risk we should take.
GLOIN: And throwing it into the ocean where there are no creatures with fingers to even wear rings is still a bad idea?
GANDALF: So we shall destroy it, then.
ELROND: Yes, I think so. And the journey will be perilous, full of despair and danger, and one might not survive it. This is not a battle or a fight; whomever takes the Ring must sneak into Mordor and cast it into the Fire.
BILBO: Oh, all right, I’ll do it.
[Everyone gasps.]
BILBO: What? I mean, I took it from Gollum. None of this would have happened without me.
GANDALF: My dear Bilbo, you are but a player in this long game.
SAM: This game of thrones?
FRODO: Seriously, Sam, you’re supposed to be spying. Shut up.
GANDALF: Bilbo, you should not be the one to do this. The Ring has passed on from you. Finish your book. Enjoy your life. Let this chapter end.
BILBO: Don’t tell me how to live my life!
GANDALF: Have I ever been wrong?
BILBO [begrudgingly]: No, you big sassy wizard. No, you haven’t.
GANDALF: Then it’s settled. We will need some other volunteer to do this.
FRODO: I suppose it has to be me, doesn’t it?
ELROND: Why do you say such a thing???
FRODO: Because I’m the main character.
[Everyone nods and mumbles in approval.]
FRODO: I wish I could just stay here, but I suppose I have to do this.
ELROND: Then you shall go forth to Mordor to destroy the Ring.
[SAM jumps out from behind a bush in shock.]
SAM: No! He cannot go alone! I must go with him!
[All feign surprise.]
ARAGORN: You’re not good at this hiding thing, are you?
SAM: Sorry, I had a lot to say.
ELROND: Then you shall go with him, too, Sam Gamgee.
SAM: Good. I mean…bad? Is this good or bad? What did I just sign up for?
ARAGORN: Oh, you are not prepared at all, Sam.
To Be Continued….
You wondered about a 70 page exposition dump…:D
BOROMIR: I’m still unsure what we’re all talking about. What do I do about the Enemy? I traveled one hundred ten days to get here! Do you expect the guy who has traveled one hundred and ten days to just turn around with only the explanation of a dream riddle? Come on!
Boromir played by Will Arnett
I would love this more than anyone can imagine.
It's not a dream!
…
…
It's a MIND ILLUSION.
Gandalf, we need to charge into Mordor. Walking into Mordor is something an orc does for money.
…or pipeweed.
YES!! THE PLAY REVIEW FORMAT HAS RETURNED!! <3
SO MUCH INFORMATION! No matter how many times I read this book, I’m always overwhelmed when I get to this chapter. WHY WOULD YOU WRITE A CHAPTER LIKE THIS? And so much name-dropping; I’m never sure if we’ve been introduced to that character before and I’ve just forgotten or if Tolkien just took info dumping to a whole new level. But somehow it works.
I like how straightforward the name Mount Doom is. What’s that mountain? It's Mount Doom. What does it do? It does Doom! It does Doom, buddy! Get out of my way!
"Butterbur they call him," thought I. "If this delay was his fault, I will melt all the butter in him. I will roast the old fool over a slow fire." He expected no less, and when he saw my face he fell down flat and began to melt on the spot."
Awwwww, Butterbur <3 I shouldn’t have laughed at this, but I did.
Con’t (this comment is def not significant enough to be split into 2 but oh well)
“…so speedily he bore me that I reached the Shire when Frodo was on the Barrow-downs, though I set out from Rohan only when he set out from Hobbiton.”
I never really thought about this because I am TERRIBLE at visualizing distance and always thought the Barrow-downs was way far away from Hobbiton, but now that I realize it’s not, Shadowfax is REALLY, REALLY, RIDICULOUSLY FAST. Gandalf should have kept Shadowfax- they’d have made it to Mordor by the next chapter and the book would be done 😛
“And it is not our part here to take thought only for a season, or for a few lives of Men, or for a passing age of the world. We should seek a final end of this menace, even if we do not hope to make one."
I love that Tolkien addresses short-term solutions and how important it is to think of future generations, even though that path may be more tedious.
I’m definitely going to steal Sam’s idea of exclaiming “Behold! Isildur’s Bane!” ALL THE TIME.
Shadowfax reminds me of Epona.
Epona's not really all that fast, her magical ability is being able to teleport anywhere in Hyrule so she can appear whenever you play her song.
Although in all fairness music can also teleport Link across Hyrule in an instant, so perhaps it's not that strange.
I guess I was more thinking about Gandalf's line that Shadowfax will always come when he calls.
Also, getting Epona makes getting around Hyrule 10000000x easier. Until you get the warp songs anyway…
I admit that I ended up never warping anywhere I could ride Epona to. SHE IS THE BEST HORSE.
That does make sense. I am now going to picture Gandalf with an ocarina calling Shadowfax to him. 😀
It's true, Epona is useful. Way better than rolling across all of Hyrule, anyway.
Hahaha, this is amazing. YEAAH!! YEAAH!! YEAAH!!
(that was the sound of Link rolling across Hyrule, in case you weren't sure)
LOL this thread is made of win!
Epona <> Shadowfax
Awesome!
I AM PLAYING TWILIGHT PRINCESS RIGHT NOW.
I am years late, but I just got the game for Christmas, along with SS.
(still have a soft spot for OoT though)
Ocarina of Time remains the only video game I've ever actually beaten. I got so close with Twilight Princess – I made it to the last dungeon before I had to go back to college and then my brother deleted my game and I didn't care enough to start over. But I lost interest in Majora's Mask and Windwaker and just never have time for video games anymore. Or rather, I have time but tend to devote it to other things.
I like to read LoZ fanfiction and OoT is probably still the most popular, although TP is up there.
<3 <3 <3 Twilight Princess~! It is my great love of Zelda games. Sometimes I pull up my game and simply call Epona and ride around because WHY NOT.
SS did a lot of interesting things but I found the increased difficulty too hard for me and eventually gave up and watched walkthroughs on Youtube to get the story. Shame because I did rather like the Wii controls but I do not play Zelda for a challenge.
Twilight Princess is one of my favourite games of all time. Enjoy it!
they should get together and create The Ultimate Horse
YES! to this
“And it is not our part here to take thought only for a season, or for a few lives of Men, or for a passing age of the world. We should seek a final end of this menace, even if we do not hope to make one."
I love that Tolkien addresses short-term solutions and how important it is to think of future generations, even though that path may be more tedious.
one of the reasons I love this book.
Your comment about Tolkien explicitly damning short-term solutions is more than significant enough to split this into 2 posts.
What does it do? It does Doom!
Eddie Izzard reference, I see you there!
“WHY WOULD YOU WRITE A CHAPTER LIKE THIS?”
Because Tolkien finally made up his mind. 🙂
One of the most interesting parts about reading the annotated drafts that Christopher Tolkien has prepared is seeing how far Tolkien got before understanding his own story. He decided at the start that Bilbo’s ring was the Maguffin to set the plot in motion, but didn’t actually have the full plot or know what the Ring was for a long time. He wrote his way all the way to Rivendell before getting really stuck. Finally, he decided that Bilbo’s Ring was the One Ring, which set up the rest of the story. But to make it work with what he’d already written, he had to go back and insert a couple of huge infodumps – Chapter 2 of Book 1 and of Book 2, and retconning a few other things along the way.
It was fairly successful, barring a few items like Gbz Obzonqvy chggvat ba gur Evat naq gur fhqqra vapernfr bs vpx-snpgbe sebz jrnevat gur Evat (V’z fher Ovyob jbhyqa’g unir orra hfvat vg gb qbqtr hajrypbzr eryngvirf vs ur sryg gnetrgrq naq ihyarenoyr jura jrnevat vg).
And in my opinion, the infodumps are much better integrated and less overwhelming from here on out. He’s able to insert them organically, rather than after the fact… without cut and paste to fall back on. 🙂
Laughed til i cried at the Eddie izzard reference. Now I’m going to have to watch circle again. Darn.
Holy info dump, Batman! I reread this chapter yesterday, and realized that my brain had conveniently forgotten how much everyone talks.
I've been looking forward to your review of this chapter and you did not disappoint. Thanks for the DELIGHTFUL review!
Behold Isildur’s Bane!
<img src="https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/385061_2481973500283_1580964049_2375875_1279529581_n.jpg "/>
FUCK
Truly, you win today's comments.
I…can't. I have been made unable to can. That is BRILLIANCE.
*snort*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
*choke*
This is amazing!! Plus, I find it incredibly amusing that there have been references to Batman in three separate comments today.
I'll give you another one! (Unless this is one that has been posted already–I haven't read all of the comments.)
<img src="http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ls736c9ymB1qim1bno1_500.jpg">
PURE AWESOME. x-D x-D x-D
Amazing!
Sir, you win all of the internets.
Congradulations! You just won the interwebz!
YAY!!!! The chapter that gets most people to give up reading the series entirely. Soooooooooooooooooo much information. On my grandma's audio books, this chapter takes up more than one cd. That's more than 70 minutes for one chapter. Yikes!!!
This is the perfect way to review this chapter!!
Anyway. This chapter had only one illustration despite that it's so, so long.
<img src="http://i52.tinypic.com/2h350ew.jpg">
Also, when I read "Behold Isildur's Bane" in this review, I read it in Robin's voice from the original Batman movie (with Adam West). So it became "Behold Isildur's Bane, Batman!!"
One last thing, FNZ: Lbh tbg gb evqr n tvnag rntyr? Gung’f abg snve!
SEBQB: Fnz, ur jnf vzcevfbarq ng gur gbc bs n zbhagnva. V guvax gung’f jbefr.
FNZ: V’z abg tbvat gb trg nalguvat V jnag, nz V?
UNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUN!!!!!!!!! Oevyyvnag!!!!
Yup, I totally agree with your laughter there. *busts up again*
OMG, I just got the same reaction as you did!!!
I was like: myou don't even imagine man…really…sberfunqbjvat…
*man…not myou…lol
I had the same reaction. 😀
Frevbhfyl, V ybir vg jura Znex haxabjvatyl cerqvpgf fghss nf n wbxr, juvpu gura gheaf bhg gb or gehr! 😀 😀 😀
Ur'f yvxr Eba!
The EE special features includes one of the Tolkien scholars giving an awesome description of this chapter as an example of how Tolkien broke basic storytelling "rules," yet it still somehow worked:
"It's 15,000 words long, nothing happens in it, you have, I always lose count of the number of people talking, but it's 20-odd, most of them have not been introduced before, and it's like nothing so much as a very badly chaired committee meeting that gets away from Elrond all the time."
Also pretty fun is the discussion of the difficulties in adapting the council, since it was clear that if they'd taken it straight from the book, it would be 30 to 45 minutes of "people standing around and talking about the plot."
I thought this chapter was handled well in the film.
Agreed.
Yeah, reading this… I completely understand why the movie does what it does. Gurl tvir lbh gur znffvir vasb qhzc nobhg gur evatf naq Vfvyqhe evtug va gur ortvaavat, naq gura gur pbhapvy vf whfg yvxr "uz, jr fubhyq qrfgebl vg. Bxnl, jub jnagf gb qb gung?" *NETHR NETHR NETHR* Sebqb: SVAR V'YY QB VG WHFG FUHG HC. Q< Rirelbar Ryfr: JR'YY TB GBB.
Lrf vg znxrf gur Pbhapvy engure ehfurq ohg… gurer jnf n ybg bs cybg gb svg va, V gbgnyyl sbetvir gurz sbe vg.
Rfcrpvnyyl fvapr gur zbivr fyvcf fb zhpu bs gur onpxfgbel eriryngvba ryfrjurer, engure guna wnzzvat vg nyy vagb guvf fprar.
Gur cneg V ybir nobhg gur zbivr irefvba bs guvf fprar vf jura gur uboovgf ner nyy whzcvat bhg naq Zreel naq Cvccra eha hc naq Ryebaq unf n "Wrfhf shpx, V gubhtug jr fcenlrq sbe uboovgf" ybbx ba uvf snpr.
Bzt, gung vf gur zbfg cresrpg qrfpevcgvba sbe gur ybbx ba Uhtb Jrnivat'f snpr V'ir rire ernq… GUng vf ornhgvshy!
Well-summarized!
Nyfb, erfcbafvoyr sbe gur ovegu bs gur "Tbaqbe unf ab …, Tbaqbe arrqf ab…" zrzr. Whfg fnlvat.
"It's 15,000 words long, nothing happens in it, you have, I always lose count of the number of people talking, but it's 20-odd, most of them have not been introduced before, and it's like nothing so much as a very badly chaired committee meeting that gets away from Elrond all the time."
This is so true. There is no order, people are always interrupting and we read about 10 different stories.
We also get no real introduction to most of the people there before they talk about their reason for being at the meeting. All of this is completely confusing and I can't imagine how how hard it was to fit that into a movie.
Oh, I LOVE that part of the documentary… It's wonderful.
Wow, I was laughing so hard to took me twice as long as it should have to read this!
Tybva – "Lrf, bs pbhefr. Zbevn Qheva Xunmnq-qûz Gueóe naq Qáva Zbeqbe naq bgure jbeqf gung ab bar ryfr vf tbvat gb haqrefgnaq naq jung nz V fnlvat."
Urur.
Fnz – "Bu, terng. Ol gur jnl, jurer ner Cvccva naq Zreel? Ner gurl rira zragvbarq ng nyy? Ner gurl bss uvqvat? Gurfr ner vzcbegnag dhrfgvbaf! JUNG VS GUR OYNPX EVQREF SBHAQ ZREEL NTNVA???"
Nu, cerfpvrag Znex vf cerfpvrag ntnva!
Sebqb – "Jung ner Bepf?"
Tnaqnys – "Fuuu, lbh’yy svaq bhg….fbzrgvzr. V qba’g npghnyyl xabj."
Hz, YBYM…
"SAM: Behold Isildur’s Bane!
ELROND: That’s….that’s not how that works."
Ahahahahaha!! LOVE IT. Mark, this is one of your best reviews to date.
I had somehow forgotten how long this chapter was. I've been listening to the audiobook instead of reading it as text, and each chapter up until now has been between 30-60 minutes. This one? Was an hour and 45 minutes long.
And yet I love it anyway. <3
I must read slowly (and maybe dozed for a minute or two; silly me, trying to read after only four hours of sleep), but I read while listening to the full FotR movie soundtrack, and I got to about an hour and 43 minutes in before I was done. Basically, I got farther in the music than in the story!
OMG names
This chapter is just one massive info dump and there are so many names. But I think I've finally figured all of it out (the third? fourth? time I'm reading it).
In addition to Aragorn having four names, we have four titles for the guys who've been following Frodo: Black Riders, Ringwraiths, the Nine, and Nazgul. I suppose it represents all the different languages and cultures in Middle Earth, as well as a bit of ignorance on the part of the hobbits calling them black riders. But damn is this stuff confusing.
I just realized this weekend that Beorn and Radagast are not the same guy. I was really confused in the Hobbit when we didn't get the Beorn the Brown title, but I figured Tolkien just hadn't worked that far ahead yet. But for all their similarities, they are completely different people.
I also like that they kept referring to Sauron as "Lord of the Ring" and "The One We Don't Name". It reminded me of Voldemort.
I really like Tolkien's style of breaking the text into more manageable chunks. In previous chapters it was a little confusing, since the breaks weren't always placed in the most intuitive places. But I loved it here. A chunk of text for each story/speaker and for all of the interruptions went a long way helping me figure out who was saying what, when, and why. It also helped me break this chapter into smaller chunks. I was busy enough this weekend that I ended up splitting it into four sittings and having natural breaks in the story every couple of pages was really helpful.
Reading this book a chapter at a time (and discussing it here) has done wonders for my reading comprehension. Thank you for tackling this project Mark, and for giving me an excuse to revisit this book and go through it at a slower pace.
AUGH I know that Tolkien loves his languages but the numbers of names for each thing does get a bit wearing. When even the mountains and the rivers and stuff have several names each it gets very confusing.
V zrna Tboyvaf naq Bepf ner onfvpnyyl gur fnzr guvat evtug? Be nf pybfr gb znxrf ab qvssrerapr. Ohg ol jung Znex'f fnvq, vg'f abg irel pyrne va gur obbxf ng NYY.
V nyjnlf nffhzrq gurl jrer gur fnzr, ohg V guvax gurer ner fhogyr qvssreraprf. Naq jr unira'g tbggra gb gur Hehx-Unv (fc?) lrg
that confuses me SO MUCH! I can deal with people having different names, but I get so lost when he uses different names for the landscape. It makes sense, but I just get so lost. Snveyl erpragyl V ernyvmrq Zbevn naq Xunmnq-qûz jrer gur fnzr guvat. Sbe fbzr ernfba V gubhtug Xunmnq-qûz jnf n cneg bs Zbevn?
(lol, google thought my rot13 was danish. Thank you, but no)
V gubhtug Xunmnq-Qhz jnf whfg gur oevqtr…
I thought that too until…yesterday when I reread the chapter. V nyjnlf jnagrq gb xabj jul gurl xrcg tbvat ba nobhg gur oevqtr. Vg arire znqr nal frafr.
On the names:
V nterr gung rirelguvat univat 3-4 anzrf vf pbashfvat. Pryrobea znxrf zl zvaq tb gb zhfu rirel gvzr ur qrfpevorf gur terng evire wbhearl naq zragvbaf 2-3 anzrf sbe rirelguvat: Avaqnys, Jrgjnat, Qntbeynq, Onggyr cynva, …
V xabj jung rnpu bar bs gurfr vf naq vg fgvyy trgf zr n ovg pebff-rlrq.
Jnvg hagvy Nentbea cvpxf hc gur shegure anzrf: Rfgry, Rysfgbar, Grypbagne, rg. ny. Gung thl frevbhfyl unf n ybg bs anzrf.
Jrgjnat nyjnlf penpxf zr hc, V pna'g uryc vg.
"Jrgjnat nyjnlf penpxf zr hc, V pna'g uryc vg. "
V pna'g jnvg sbe Znex'f ernpgvba gb gur anzr. V vzntvar vs ur qbrf nabgure cynl, n punenpgre (Fnz?) jvyy or "Jnvg, jung?"
Gur anzr nyjnlf penpxf zr hc gbb. V fubhyq unir cbfgrq guvf jvgu gur TVS bs "Orubyq, Vfvqhe'f Onar!"
Not sure if this is spoiler, so rot13-ing. It’s from the Hobbit, but I seem to remember that Mark doesn’t like pointers of stuff he misses – and LOTS of folks miss this one.
Vg’f npghnyyl zragvbarq va gur Uboovg, bs nyy cynprf, gura ARIRE ZRAGVBARQ NTNVA, rfcrpvnyyl va gur obbx jurer gurl npghnyyl GNYX nobhg Bepf nyy bire gur cynpr.
Va gur Uboovg, gurer’f n guebjnjnl yvar nobhg Tboyva geniry fcrrq, naq ubj (sebz zrzbel) “gur ovt barf, gur terng Bepf bs gur zbhagnvaf,” pna eha K snfg pebhpurq nyzbfg qbhoyr va gurve ghaaryf.
V pbhyq or jebat, fb crbcyr jub unir xrcg hc jvgu gurve Gbyxvra-yber, pbeerpg zr nf arrqrq, ohg:
Bepf- fcrpvsvpnyyl ersref gb gur barf jbexvat sbe Fnheba.
Tboyvaf- ersref gb gur barf yvivat va gur Zvfgl Zbhagnvaf naq gur barf gung yvir va Zbevn, gur "hanssvyvngrq", vs lbh jvyy.
UBjrire, V pbhyq or pbzcyrgryl jebat nobhg guvf.
Oh, and by the way, Tom Bombadil has a truckload full of names as well.
I like the one they give him in this chapter–"Irwain Ben-Adar," which means "oldest and fatherless."
Ah yes, I forgot to mention all of those. That's just one of those things that happens when you live forever.
Sandman spoilers: Ur'f n ovg yvxr Zbecurhf va gung jnl, "npphzhyngvat anzrf gb uvzfrys nf bguref znxr sevraqf, ohg ur crezvgf uvzfrys srj sevraqf"
"OMG names"
SOOOO THIS! Rot13-ing this next part, because I am not sure if it is a spoiler: V nz fybttvat zl jnl guebhtu Gur Fvyznevyyvba sbe n frpbaq gvzr naq Gur Anzrf ner xvyyvat zr! Vg frrzf fb zhpu jbefr va guvf obbx, rira gubhtu Puevfgbcure Gbyxvra gbbx zrepl ba hf naq cebivqrq yvfg va gur onpx.
Agreed. Rfcrpvnyyl fvapr vg frrzf nyy gur znva punenpgref anzrf fgneg jvgu gur cersvk sva be ng yrnfg na s
I do think the amount of names/titles lends to realness of the story for me
So true! Also, it does make it seem more like a historical account vs. a story, which I guess it was intended to be.
Yes, it's awkward. To be fair, King Thranduil was imprisoning them until he could find out what they wanted, whilst with Gollum Gandalf asked them to keep him indefinitely and hope he might be cured. So that's why they took him out; which doesn't mean it was okay to imprison the dwarves like that, I don't know where I stand on the fairness of that situation.
weregild – definition of weregild by the Free Online Dictionary …
(in Anglo-Saxon society) a payment made to the family of a slain man by his killer
or the killer's family as compensation, atonement, and to avoid reprisals. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/weregild
Somebody thought you might review with fake minutes instead of a script, which is fun too.
http://www.lordofthepeeps.com/lotp/fotp/7tcoe/tco… http://www.lordofthepeeps.com/lotp/fotp/7tcoe/tco… http://www.lordofthepeeps.com/lotp/fotp/7tcoe/tco… http://www.lordofthepeeps.com/lotp/fotp/7tcoe/tco… Elrond peep http://www.lordofthepeeps.com/lotp/fotp/7tcoe/tco… Rivendell http://www.lordofthepeeps.com/lotp/fotp/7tcoe/tco…
Confrontation between Saruman peep and Gandalf peep http://www.lordofthepeeps.com/lotp/fotp/3astm/ast… http://www.lordofthepeeps.com/lotp/fotp/3astm/ast…
This reread, I realized that Isildur was saying that he's taking the ring as payment for the deaths of his father and brother. Guhf nffregvat uvf "pynvz," ba vg, n yn Tbyyhz jvgu uvf "oveguqnl cerfrag." Last time I read the book, I was in 10th grade and didn't know the word "weregild."
This is totally awesome!
The details are fantastic. I can`t stop laughing about the weird subtitles "the ring he cut from Sauron's ear", brilliant.
Ever since watching all the vlogbrothers videos I wished for peeps here and this only made it worse.
Why are there no peeps here?
I mean they so cute, diabetically delicious and the perfect story-telling device.
Probably the only thing better are Red Vines, which I can also not buy here.
The world is a cruel place. 🙁
Just as I ended reading I could hear the fellowship of the ring theme soundtrack on my head!!!!
And Mark finally got the meaning off the "one does not simply walks into mordor" line!!!
http://www.lordofthepeeps.com/lotp/fotp/7tcoe/tco…
Because of the barbecue pits.
Is it spoilery to embed an image of the actor? I wanted to put in some pics of the meme.
Gur trareny pbafrafhf ng gur fcbvyre oybt vf gung gur pnfgvat bs Obebzve vf vgfrys n fcbvyre, fvapr gur punenpgref ur cynlf graq gb qvr. Fb jr'er ubyqvat bss hagvy Obebzve'f qrngu sbe gung bar.
Gur ernfba sbe guvf orvat n fcbvyre vf fvzhygnarbhfyl gentvp naq uvynevbhf gb zr.
Better not, Mark might have read something about Frna Orna nyjnlf qlvat va uvf ebyrf…lbh xabj…tnzr bs guebarf, onq ebznapr (vg’f uvz evtug?)…
Okay, thanks all. V unq ab vqrn nobhg gur npgbe. Jryy V whfg sbetbg. Nyfb, V ybbxrq vg hc naq ur'f abg va gur Onq Ebznapr ivqrb.
Gosh. The guy with the ageless face and the ancient wisdom blah-dee-blah reputation and the hale-as-a-warrior (translation, he may have a six-pack under that fancy robe) bod, ruling a place full of Elves, turns out to be older than he looks. I wonder what that tells us.
Poor silly surprised Frodo, he is just as NOT PREPARED as Mark. :p
I like that little reminder that elves are immortal. There are all these hints up to now that they never die, specifically when Tinuviel chooses death so she can live with Beren. But it turns out that immortal means you live for a really, really long time. 2+ ages of the world in Elrond's case.
Spoilers and stuff but nothing plot-wise:
Naq abg gb zragvba Tybesvaqry be Tnynqevry. Be Pryrobea. Naq Guenaqhvy sbhtug ng Qntbeynq gbb (gur onggyr gung znqr uvz Xvat bs Zvexjbbq, fvapr uvf sngure naq 2/3 bs Zvexjbbq'f sbeprf jrer onfvpnyyl fynhtugrerq), naq Qbevngu…
Va snpg, Yrtbynf vf cebonoyl gur lbhatrfg rys srngherq va gur obbxf (n ybg bs crbcyr rfgvzngr uvf ntr gb or 500-700 lrnef ohg bs pbhefr abguvat vf rire rkcyvpvgyl fgngrq (JUL QVQA'G LBH QRIRYBC GUVF SNZVYL ZBER, GBYXVRA?). Ur qbrf frrz lbhatre guna gur bgure ryirf jr zrrg gubhtu).
Naq Nejra vf jung…bire 2,000? (rfgvzngvat urer, V qba'g unir EbgX ba zr). Naq fur'f gur lbhatrfg qrfpraqnag bs gur Abyqbe yrsg va Zvqqyr-rnegu.
Hu, zl cbvag: Ryirf ner byq. 🙂
Píeqna vf cebonoyl gur byqrfg yvivat Rys va Zvqqyr-rnegu – vg vf fcrphyngrq gung ur jnfa'g rira obea, ohg ur jnf bar bs gur svefg Ryirf gung njbxr ng Phvivéara.
Frpbaq byqrfg vf cebonoyl Tnynqevry, jub jnf obea va Inyvabe qhevat gur Lrnef bs gur Gerrf, orsber gur Fha naq gur Zbba jrer znqr.
V SBETBG NOBHG PÍEQNA. UR UNF N ORNEQ BS PBHEFR UR'F BYQ *facepalm*
Vs Zntybe vf fgvyy nyvir (V yvxr gb guvax ur vf NF FNQ NF GUNG ZNXRF ZR *pnhfr ur'f nyy nybar*) ur jbhyq cebonoyl or frpbaq vafgrnq bs Tnynqevry.
Naq Tybesvaqry vf hc gurer gbb, rfcrpvnyyl vs ur unccraf gb or n qrfpraqnag bs Svajë (Svaqvf' be Vevzë'f fba)—vs lbh tb ol gung gurbel. V yvxr gb. V whfg jnag uvz gb unir snzvyl. Naq vg rkcynvaf uvf tbyqra unve.
Ohg lrnu, SBE FHER Tnynqevry vf cebonoyl nsgre Píeqna, gur bguref ner whfg fcrphyngvba.
Er: Zntybe. N sevraq bs zvar jebgr n SNAGNFGVP yvggyr snasvp fgbel nobhg W.E.E. Gbyxvra, jub zrrgf n fgenatr fretrnag qhevat gur onggyr bs Fbzzr, pnyyrq Xrnah ZnpNynher (jub gheaf bhg gb or Zntybe, bs pbhefr). Ur fubjf uvz cvpgher bs Rqvgu naq gryyf uvz bs uvf qernzf (jurer ur frrf tyvzcfrf bs gur uvfgbel bs Zvqqyr-rnegu), naq Zntybe ernyvfrf Rqvgu vf n qrfpraqnag bs Yúguvra, jub jnf qrfgvarq gb zneel gur zna jub jbhyq chg qbja gur uvfgbel bs Zvqqyr-rnegu fb gung vg yvirf ba. Ng gur raq, va gur zvqqyr bs gur avtug, Gbyxvra jvgarffrf gur nccrnenapr bs Räeraqvy, jub pbzrf gb gnxr Zntybe ubzr ng ynfg – naq gur sbyybjvat zbeavat ur svaqf n erq obbx ba uvf orqfvqr gnoyr. 🙂 V'ir zrnag gb genafyngr vg vagb Ratyvfu sbe fbzr gvzr, ohg arire tbg ebhaq gb vg (vg'f jevggra va Pmrpu). Arrqyrff gb fnl gung guvf vf GBGNYYL zl urnq pnaba abj. 😀
That sounds SUPER AWESOME.
Oh my gosh, that is the most fantastic thing I've ever EVER heard about!! If you ever translate it, PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE post it!!!!!!
I HAVE READ THAT
IT WAS AMAZING *hearts in eyes*
Oh, wait, it was in Czech? Um. I read something almost exactly like it, I guess? But in English.
Zntybe yvirf!
Lrnu, V'ir nyjnlf unq n fbsg fcbg sbe uvz. NYY BS GUR UHTF. Nyy bs gurz.
V jbhaq hc jevgvat zl bja svpf nobhg uvz. Vapyhqvat bar uhaqerq-jbeq qenooyr nf guvatf fgbbq ol gur raq bs gur Fvyznevyyvba – 'Qvq Ur Abg Pbzr Urer', naq bar NH-glcr guvatl frg yngre, 'Oevtugre Guna Fvyznevyf'.
Jvyy vapyhqr yvaxf va pnfr nalbar vf phevbhf. Nffhzvat V pna znxr ebg13 cynl avpr jvgu gurz…
Er, note to anybody not translating this, those links should probably not be followed unless you've already read the Silmarillion, 'cos spoilers.
Abg bayl ur unf n orneq, ur'f gur bayl rys jr xabj bs gb unir nal snpvny unve NG NYY. Ur'f whfg gung onqnff.
Sil Spoilers: Npghnyyl, nccneragyl Areqnary'f sngure Znugna zlfgrevbhfyl unq n orneq qrfcvgr qrfcvgr abg orvat byq rabhtu sbe bar.
Ryivfu unve tebjgu ybgvba?
I thought we'd be getting a really, really long list today, Mark! Glad you had a weekend to digest this important but confusing-to-newbies chapter.
I love how repsonsible these folks are. They won't pass on this danger to another generation, they (meaining Frodo) man up and take responsibility. I like that Bombadil is mentioned, if only to say – Nah, he can't be trusted with it. I like that the Rangers and all they do is acknowledged. Oh – and as for capturing Gollum – we're pretty sure he's a murderer, aren't we? not justifying indefinite detention, but just saying. And Elrond is so old because Elves are immortal, unless they die in battle or of a broken heart. I like how it is stated that WAR is coming to lots of places in Middle Earth, and Sauron has tricked many to his side.
HEE I love the play format!
People always complain about this chapter but I kind of like it? I mean, it's a HUGE info-dump and I needed to read it a few times on my first read-through just to pick up on everything, but it's not exactly boring. I really like hearing all the individual stories and reasons why all these people are here. It gives you a bit of a bigger picture of what's going on in the world and how Sauron is a threat.
But yeah…I never got the whole 'Saruman the many coloured!' thing. That's just…weird.
V'z tynq gurl xrcg vg bhg bs gur zbivrf – V tbg gur vzcerffvba gung ab-bar ernyyl haqrefgbbq jung vg jnf nyy nobhg naq jung gur fvtavsvpnapr jnf.
I think Saruman switching to many-colors is sort of hime being so power hungry. he's not satisfied with being himself, Saruman the White. He wants MORE.
He wants to not just have his assigned role, like the comment above me says. It can also be read as antiscience, as in this spoilery essay: http://scienceblogs.com/bushwells/2007/03/the_tol…
White can be broken into many colors, and Gandalf is saying that if you break something to understand it you're doing wrong.
I know your second paragraph does not reveal any new information, but isn't it technically a spoiler?
Qbrfa'g Tnaqyns fnl vg yngre va gur obbx gb Fnehzna uvzfrys nsgre jvaavat gur onggyr va Vfratneq?
Nope, he says it in this chapter.
Oh, Doc Bushwell's essay is very interesting and enlightening!
Fur nyfb unf jevggra na rkpryyrag svp, fbeg bs n cerdhry qvnybthr orgjrra Fnehzna naq Tnaqnys orsber gurl jrer Vfgnev, fubjvat gur onfvp cuvybfbcuvpny qvssreraprf orgjrra gur gjb punenpgref:
"Unweaving the Rainbow" http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/h…
Fur unf n ahzore bs engure urergvpny naq aba-genqvgvbany vagrecergngvbaf bs Gbyxvra'f jbex, nyy bs gurz jryy-jevggra. V rfcrpvnyyl yvxr ure onpxfgbel sbe Fnheba uvzfrys. Rira jura V qba'g nterr jvgu ure vagrecergngvbaf V rawbl gurz irel zhpu.
I keep thinking of it as Saruman and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat.
I also imagine the shifting colors are a mirror of how shifty and twisted Saruman has become now that he is working for himself, as it were.
Also, who would expect Gandalf to fall for the "We can totally share power, but I get to be in charge," line?
My sister and I recorded a video of her (she has a better voice than me) singing "Saruman of Many Colours"
/dorkdoms meet
Basically, Tolkien is saying that to destroy something to see how it’s made is pretty dumb. Despite disliking allegory immensely, he did write one about a group of men who are so enamored by a tower that they take it apart piece by piece to see how it was made. Sure, they got knowledge, but now there’s no tower.
The colors of the wizards definitely seem symbolic of their wisdom or role in Middle Earth. And since white is the combination of all colors, it represents the combined wisdom of the colors as well. So, when Saurman breaks the white to get to the colors, Gandalf recognizes that it’s a step down. Naq jura Tnaqnys tbrf sebz terl gb juvgr, vg’f uvf cebzbgvba. Ur abj unf gur pbzovarq jvfqbz bs nyy gur pbybef.
"Dumb" is an ableist word; please don't use it here.
It's probable that when Tolkien said 'allegory' what he really meant was 'allegorical novel'. His stories and his essays in particular are too full of small allegories/parables for him to be able to say that he hated all allegory with a straight face.
The bit I love most about the story of the tower is where he says that the guy on top of the tower didn't know all about its origins, but from there he could see the sea. It's the fiction writer's version of the 'standing on the shoulders of giants' speech.
Weregild is an *actual Earth* (not Middle-Earth) word for restitution you have to pay to the family of someone you killed. Basically a way of making justice before there were lots of prisons.
Comes from "Were" – meaning "Man or Person" (think werewolf – "man-wolf") and "Gild" meaning "Gold or Payment".
/end linguistics explanation
(please someone let me know if this counts as spoilers)
I'm pretty sure just explaining the meaning of everyday words (that aren't book specific) isn't a spoiler so you're safe there.
I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS AN EVERYDAY WORD
I THOUGHT IT WAS INVENTED FOR THIS BOOK
OH MY GOD I HAVE TO START USING THIS
This? You mean, like, the dictionary?
Oh, wait, you mean the WORD. Yes, let's weregild it up with velocipedestriennes.
This is what happens when novels are written by professors of Mideaval history and linguistics. There is a fine line between Ye Olde Butchered English and making it up as we go,
I used to confuse the meaning of Weregild with Danegeld. As in "One you pay the Danegeld, you never get rid of the Dane." – Rudyard Kipling
Yes, weregild was a useful way of making restitution. Danegeld was what the Anglo-Saxons in England paid the invading Danes/vikings to go away – but they always came back and asked for more the following year.
…how would you use that regularly though
"So this guy cut the line at Starbucks and so I demanded he pay me a weregild of five bucks, and when he didn't, I took him out on the streets and slew him in righteous spear-crash with my war-leek*, that his wound-sea spattered the pavement."
*Actual kenning for sword recorded in Old Norse.
Nice! I'd seen the word in another fantasy book (The Last Dragonlord, lol) but wasn't aware it was in use in the real world as well.
Then again I'm currently reading some history books and there are a couple situations where I'm like "Holy shit, did GRRM read this book? Because it's like he lifted the situation entirely!" As the saying goes, good artists borrow, great artists steal.
Yep. Its amazing how much of the Dung Ages happened in real life.
There is another quote that says something like: "Stealing from one source is plagarism, stealing from many is research."
"SAM: Is that a metaphor for saying he’s gay?
FRODO: I don’t think the rainbow meant “unholy homosexual” at this time."
And he's not the one being played by Ian McKellan.
– The whole thing about the Nine and the Seven and the Three rings can get a bit confusing, especially the Three which are somehow protected from Sauron's influence unless he has the One with him. I really like this explanation:
That's from TV Tropes (many, many spoilers).
– "Well, let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scale of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts."
– "Yet such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere." SO MANY GREAT QUOTES IN THIS CHAPTER
– "There lies our hope, if hope it be. To walk into peril–to Mordor." ELROND! Don't you know ANYTHING about walking into Mordor?
<img src="http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxges6FBzr1r36lsoo1_500.jpg">
– Poor Frodo. He's so brave, and he volunteers even though nobody is telling him to go. And just when he's finally got some rest, too.
– "It is hardly possible to separate you from him, even when he is summoned to a secret council and you are not." LOL SAM. I love how everyone just forgets about him and then he's like OF COURSE I AM GOING WITH YOU.
– [Raq qvfp bar, cyrnfr vafreg qvfp gjb. Jryy, nyzbfg.]
<img src="http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxgkoqiVZX1r9hqi4o1_500.jpg">
[V xvaq bs srry yvxr guvf puncgre pbagnvaf nyy gur frrqf bs gur fgbel nf n jubyr. Jr unir gur cyna nyy ynvq bhg–Fnheba jba'g fhfcrpg gung fbzrbar vf gelvat gb qrfgebl gur evat, fb vg'f gvzr sbe uboovgf gb fgrc hc naq znxr uvfgbel. Tbyyhz unf rfpncrq naq jvyy or fubjvat hc yngre. Tnaqnys znxrf n pbzzrag nobhg gernfba orvat gur terngrfg sbr, naq gura Obebzve unf uvf fcrrpu nobhg hfvat gur evat sbe tbbq, obgu bs juvpu sberfunqbj uvf qbjasnyy. Jr yrnea nobhg gur Rntyrf urycvat Tnaqnys bhg bs n fpencr, nobhg Fnehzna orvat n onq thl, nobhg Nentbea'f urevgntr naq gur fjbeq gung jnf oebxra, nobhg Zbevn naq ubj abobql'f urneq nalguvat sebz gurer va n juvyr. Gurer'f n ybg bs fghss nobhg Tbaqbe naq Ebuna orvat nyyvrf, naq qvfphffvba bs jurgure be abg Ebuna unf snyyra haqre Fnheba'f fcryy. Naq gura ng gur raq jr unir Fnz yblny nf rire gb Sebqb, sberfunqbjvat ubj vzcbegnag ur jvyy or gb gur jubyr wbhearl. V ybirf vg.]
The "occupy Mordor" meme is sheer perfection. I want that as a poster on my wall now!
I totally agree with your last rot13'd paragraph. 🙂 Well summed up!
I love this whole post! the Occupy Mordor, the last paragraph, everything. thanks for writing
This is what happens when I take an entire weekend to write a comment! 😀 I'm glad you like it!
I love you…. You are all things beautiful in your posts/summaries/memes/life.
Never change.
<3
<img src="http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/7/25/128930518565692766.jpg">
<img class='event-item-lol-image' src='http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/demotivational-posters-one-does-not-simply-occupy-mordor1.jpg' alt="demotivational posters – ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY OCCUPY MORDOR" title="demotivational posters – ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY OCCUPY MORDOR" height="572px" width="482px" />see more Very Demotivational
Mark, I am in AWE at how much you picked up from your first read of this chapter. It took me ten or so re-reads to get some of the subtleties you got on round one. WELL DONE TO YOU, SIR!
I'm gonna echo notemily here and say FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MARK USE THE MAP THAT COMES WITH THE BOOK.
I would be so utterly lost without the map – I must have read these books a dozen times and I still have to flick to the map every couple of chapters to get my bearings.
I don't think it's spoilery?
Vg qbrf yrg lbh xabj gung ol gur raq bs obbx bar, Sebqb naq Fnz ner n ybg pybfre gb Zbeqbe guna lbh'q guvax jvgu ubj zhpu bs gur fgbel vf yrsg.
Ubj fb? V unir gur fnzr znc sbe nyy gur obbxf, fubjvat gur ragver bs Zvqqyr Rnegu…vf gurer fbzr jnl bs xabjvat jurer gurl trg gb ng gur raq bs guvf obbx?
The map is definitely spoilery.
Can it really be a spoiler if it's meant to be used while you're reading the book, though? I mean, I'm pretty sure during chapters like this one I'm not the only one who flips to the maps constantly to see all the places they're talking about.
It's spoilery to Mark, because Mark has made it very clear in his spoiler policy that *anything he has not yet come across in the book* is a spoiler. That includes locations.
Yeah, I have to agree with you on this one. I mean, before anyone accuses me of trying to spoil Mark, it is totally HIS CALL as to whether or not he looks at the map. However, in my opinion, the maps available are SO detailed that there are places shown on them that never even show up in the books, so there's no way of knowing what's relevant and what's not. But, again, it is up to Mark whether or not he wants to use the map! There is even a great book of maps that is specific to each chapter and shows you how far Frodo is traveling – might be worth an investment.
Exactlly. I get that Mark always wants to go in with ~no knowledge whatsoever~ but the maps are there to help you. I feel like not looking at them would be like reading a book about the US and not knowing where any of the cities are. If you don't know that New York and LA are several thousand miles apart, and the book is about a road trip, you are going to be really confused for no reason. This goes for almost any country– I frequently look up maps of England because outside of London I have pretty much no idea where any of the cities are.
If the author is giving you information then you are *meant* to be spoiled about that information. If it were a spoiler, the author wouldn't tell it to you! In fact knowing the information might even be critical to the plot.
Right! Like Tolkien called this book The Fellowship of the Ring. He's coming right out there and saying, "Reader, this book is likely going to involve some sort of ring, and a fellowship thereof." So every mention of rings or fellows or ships is meant to spark your interest toward this eventual possible resolution.
I totally agree with all of the comments above. It's NOT a spoiler to watch the map.Spoiler for what?Does it say the story?No,it just shows you the setting of the story.The only thing that would make the map a spoiler would be if it showed you through a line or something like that the road that these characters have taken or the roads that would take.
Also, it shows a lot more places than just what's in the story, so technically the story could go anywhere, and by various routes.
But it definitely helps to visualise the route as we go along with the plot, and also provides the perspective on the distances covered.
YES! thank you 😀
I basically agree with all of this. The maps are the first thing you see following the table of contents (in my copy, anyway), and I definitely found them helpful to understanding where the characters were and how far they travelled.
One thing, though, that's arguably a spoiler is that gur cngu guebhtu Pvevgu Hatby vf vapyhqrq ba gur znc bs Tbaqbe naq Zbeqbe. Vg'f orra n juvyr fvapr V ynfg ernq gur obbx (sbe funzr!) ohg V qba'g erzrzore gurer orvat nal uvagf nobhg Pvevgu Hatby cevbe gb “Gur Oynpx Tngr vf Pybfrq.” N ernqre jub qbrfa'g cnl pybfr nggragvba gb gur znc zvtug, hc hagvy gung cbvag, oryvrir (nf Fnz naq Sebqb qb) gung gur Oynpx Tngr vf gur bayl jnl va be bhg bs Zbeqbe. Naq zvtug jryy pbagvahr gb jbaqre jurgure Tbyyhz vf gryyvat gur gehgu…
Nyfb, guvf vf xvaq bs na nagv-fcbvyre, ohg zl pbcl bs Sryybjfuvc, ng yrnfg, vapyhqrf n znc bs Aúzrabe, juvpu nf sne nf V erpnyy cynlf ab cneg va gur fgbel.
I would say that the placement of the maps, the front inside cover, suggests that the reader is meant to use them while reading. Of course it possible that the kindle does not have the maps and that's why Mark hasn't used them
I believe the Kindle does have the maps. I downloaded the sample on Amazon and I'm pretty sure it had at least one map.
V fhccbfr gur zncf PBHYQ or fcbvyre-l – ohg gurer ner fb irel znal cynprf naq ynaqznexf ba gurz gung ner arire, rire zragvbarq ntnva gung gur fcbvyref ner ybfg gb fbzrbar jub qbrfa'g xabj gur fgbel.
Agreed. This was half the fun of the book as well. You wouldn't … wow. never mind. Good analogy just ain't happening.
HOLY INFO DUMP BATMAN
Seriously. This chapter could be a book in and of itself. We learn about the origin of the Ring, about Sauron, about Gollum, about where Gandalf was, I mean, EVERYTHING. Also, SUCKS THAT SAURUMAN IS A TRAITOR. Seriously. Like there's ever enough good guys as it is.
And then, when Frodo volunteers to take the Ring (which, hello bravery!) being the amazing, beautiful, perfect little hobbit that he is, Sam volunteers to go with him, jumping out of the bushes!
"You at least shall go with him. It is hardly possible to separate you from him, even when he is summoned to a secret council and you are not."
SAM AND FRODO ON A FROLICKING ADVENTURE THROUGH MIDDLE EARTH. I suspect that everything will be great and nothing will hurt! How could this go wrong??? OH WAIT.
P.S. Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatuluk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.
Lets just discuss for a moment my supreme moment of realizing that I spend too much time on this site, and also that I am pretty dumb….. I read this sentence in the book, then WENT TO ROT13 TO TRANSLATE IT. ohmygod you guys, this is a problem. One, Tolkien's language is wayyyy too close to rot13 for comfort…. and two, I TRIED TO TRANSLATE A LINE FROM A PHYSICAL BOOK , NOT TO MENTION IT WAS WRITTEN NEARLY A CENTURY AGO.
great hobbit on earth what is wrong with me
"You at least shall go with him. It is hardly possible to separate you from him, even when he is summoned to a secret council and you are not."
V ybir Uhtb Jrnivat'f qryvirel bs guvf yvar. Whfg gur onerfg uvag bs nzhfrzrag haqre gur fgrea rys rkgrevbe.
yes! great delivery.
Lol. But thanks to your post, I have for the first time made the connection between the "nazg" in the verse and the Nazgul, the ringwraiths. And I've read the book more than twenty times. This slow pace stuff is really good.
Urrr, lrnu naq gura Zreel naq Cvccva ohefg va naq Uhtb whfg unf guvf ybbx gung'f yvxr, "Gur uryy? Ubj znal uboovgf ner yvfgravat va ba guvf zrrgvat?!"
I just copy+paste this line in rot3 too now…lololol…~le pokerface~
Rot13 is the DARK TOUNGUE!!! But we speak it all the time! 🙁 Elrond's gonna be pissed…
The Dark Toungue is Rot13'd Elvish. Because Sauron knew it would piss the elves off.* XD
*no, it actually isn't.
That's ok, I totally highlighted the "Ash nazg…" line in your post to translate it until I realized what it was.
"Dumb" is an ableist word, please don't use it on this site. I love the rest of your comment, though, and lol at trying to translate the Black Speech through rot13. xD
Thank you, I won't use it again! I was just wondering, cause I thought about this before I wrote it, is 'stupid' or other replacement words like that ableist as well?? I was trying to come up with a different word, but wasn't sure which one was bad, and my brain doesn't exactly work the best at 6am….
Stupid is fine, no worries. 🙂
Well, maybe. I wouldn't use it to refer to people.
Oops, good point, I hadn't seen that one yet.
I saw it a long time ago and I'm still not sure how I feel about it. I get that intelligence in general is a flawed concept, but I have a lot more trouble coming up with replacement words for smart and stupid than I do for crazy and lame.
I know, I had a really hard time this morning trying to find a word to express what I was trying to say… “stupid” actually felt worse than “dumb” at the time, though I see now why I was wrong. I just don’t know what else I would say…”unintelligent?” Tha has the same problem….
Sometimes, if you're referring to people, "foolish" works. Other times it doesn't substitute so easily.
Oh, foolish is perfect. Thank you!
Am I right in guessing that this is not the right forum for an objective philosophical discussion of the degree to which our culture is obsessed with political correctness and whether or not that is ultimately detrimental?
/liberal arts student with way too much time on hand
I don't even like the term "political correctness." To me, that's a euphemism for "respect" that people use when they can't be bothered to speak respectfully.
And you're right, this is not the right forum for that. Re-read the site rules.
Regarding the word "stupid", I always remember this hilarious exchange from "A Fish Called Wanda":
Otto (played by Kevin Kline): "Don't call me stupid!"
Wanda (played by Jamie Lee Curtis): "No, to call you stupid would be an insult to stupid people!"
😀 (I love that film, it's so hilarious)
This site shut down a year ago, but it's good. Here are some posts on words, with some of them profiling specific words and phrases: http://disabledfeminists.com/tag/word-use/
LOLOL! That's too funny! But, yeah, the Black Speech does look kind of like rot.13!
That is great! LOLZ
The human brain is amazing with how quickly it adjusts to stuff – I've been able to mentally translate some things before I even get to Rot13 and is it is so odd to realize that's happening.
I think ROT13ing that actually makes it look less like English. (I think ROT13 might literally be centuries old, though.)
Right, I need a list here because I have so many various things to say.
1. I was really sad that this wasn't posted when I came here this morning. This late posting thing needs to stop. How many times can I refresh?
2. That play is utterly hilarious.
3. V pna'g oryvrir ur rffragvnyyl tbg gur "Lbh pna'g whfg jnyx vagb Zbeqbe" guvat evtug.
4. I was so excited about more LOTR (and let's face it, more Elrond) that I read this chapter Friday night and WISHED IT WAS LONGER. So I decided the time had come to attempt The Silmarillion again. When I got my copy out I realized by my old bookmark that I'd actually made it about 1/4 of the way through on my last attempt. Unfortunately I didn't remember a single thing, so I had to start over. I don't know if it was because I'd actually already read it, or because I'm already in Tolkien mode, but I found it much easier going this time. I mean, yeah there still are WAY too many names and place names and it's essentially one huge Info Dump, but I found myself actually following the thread of the plot and interested in it. Also, I think before I was reading a chapter at a time and when I would pick it up I would have forgotten who everyone was. This weekend I did my best to read as much as I could at a sitting and was able to keep track of everything better. I'm 150 pages in now. So, thanks everyone for pushing The Silmarillion and getting me to finally get somewhere with it.
it is worth the work, and work it is.
I may end up reading it too.
And throwing it into the ocean where there are no creatures with fingers to even wear rings is still a bad idea?
I for one welcome our new tentacled overlords.
<img src="http://i39.tinypic.com/mrxsex.png" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">
I don't even know what I'm doing.
You're doing AWESOME is what you're doing
I second notemily. PURE WIN IS WHAT THIS IS.
That is pure beauty!
I want this on a t-shirt, a mug, a bag.
I want it on all the things
GUR JNGPURE VA GUR JNGRE!!!
DID YOU EVER KNOW THAT YOU'RE MY HERO
I'm in the middle of China Mieville's Kraken and I am ALL FOR tentacled overlords right now
BEST REPLY EVER!
SHOOT where is this from??? I can't believe I can't remember
Ken Jennings, one the more famous Jeopardy! winners, put this as his answer in the last episode where he and another former winner played against Watson the Computer. Only he put "I for one welcome our new computer overlords."
Apparently it's originally from The Simpsons.
PLAY FORMAT YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY 😀 <3 ALSO, USE THE MAPS, MARK.
Lots to talk about in this chapter! But first, the Art Corner hath returned!
<img src="http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/2958/001oza.th.jpg" border="0"/>
First up is a striking piece illustrating Gandalf's escape from Orthanc, done by the talented artist named Fletcher.
<img src="http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/2408/011edi.th.jpg" border="0"/>
Next up is Inger Edelfeldt's depiction of Gollum's captivity in Mirkwood.
Now then, onto business.
Lnl Tvzyv! Naq Yrtbynf! Uv, Obebzve! BZT GUR JUBYR SRYYBJFUVC VF URER FB RKPVGR.
I hope Balin's okay. 🙁 I got attached to him because he was the nicest to Bilbo and seemed so kind.
Ew creepy. Those Ringwraiths sure get around, don't they? I'm really glad Dain and the other dwarves were not buying Sauron's shit. They know better than to trust that guy after how he's betrayed them in the past. Also the offer of rings, specifically three of the Seven, is pretty alarming, as they know that many have been destroyed or lost. Lastly, since when does the "oh, it's only a thing/person of no importance" EVER fly with ANYONE? Yeah, SURE, I'm SO SURE that Sauron is offering these precious rings in exchange for a minor trifling thing. I mean, if someone stole a Cracker Jack ring from me, I'd be willing to offer something priceless in exchange for the return of it! Except not. Fail, Sauron.
Deadmen's Dike. Sounds cheery!
Awwww, Bilbo wrote the poem. <3 Still love you, Bilbo. ALWAYS. BOROMIR GOT TOLD.
And he gets told again by Aragorn. I love what he has to say about how the Rangers wouldn't have it any other way. It's creepy just hearing that there are evil things lurking about even in the areas we've already passed through, that would scare the shit out of BARLIMAN BUTTERBUR and everyone else in Bree, and that could destroy Bree. Yet, how kind and sweet is it that they don't even want the praise that Boromir is so tetchy about Gondor getting barely any of, just so that the folk they protect can remain simple and happy and ignorant of all the danger that lies so close to them? The Rangers are pretty damn awesome.
Well, that's nice, Isildur called the ring "precious" too. That alone would've told me everything I needed to know about what this thing is, given that Gollum calls it that, and Bilbo referred to it that way before leaving the Shire.
V ybir ubj guvf cneg vf qbar va gur zbivr, jvgu rirelbar jvapvat nf Tnaqnys hfrf gur Oynpx Fcrrpu, naq gurl ernyyl tbg qbja gur rssrpgf jvgu uvf ibvpr, naq bs gur funqbj bire gur fha.
Fuck, Gollum escaped. 🙁
Oh hey, Radagast.
Shit. Saruman is evil too. AREN'T THINGS JUST GETTING BETTER AND BETTER.
rrrrrrrrrrr V pna'g jnvg gb tb gb Ebuna va gur arkg obbx! RBJLA. FB ZHPU YBIR.
Oh good, Gandalf didn't roast BARLIMAN BUTTERBUR. And he even hoped that his beer would be magically delicious for seven years! SWEET.
All right, that explains what they found and saw on Weathertop. Thought it had to be something to do with Gandalf. So he was battling it out with Nazgul. EEK. He did an admirable job of holding them off, though. Gandalf is such a badass. <3 Also, I love that phrasing, "only" five when Frodo and the others got attacked. Only. Not that Nine would've been a picnic, but five is still pretty awful. Just one is terrifying.
Pna'g hafrr gur "Obzonqvy vf rivy" gurbel.
BUT WE CAN'T WALK INTO MORDOR. WHAT ARE YOU SAYING.
I love how Bilbo is all "Can we please eat now? :(" I'd be hungry too after all that! And I hope there's been water or something handy for the people telling really long stories. Like Elrond, SHEESH.
Oh, Sam. <3 <3 <3
Aahaha, are the elves SMILING as they have Gollum on a leash? They're just like "LOL WE HAZ A GOLLUM."
Pna'g hafrr gur "Obzonqvy vf rivy" gurbel.
I KNOW RIGHT ME TOO
I am… way too distracted by the fact that the artist there decided to depict the giant eagles as bald eagles. Middle-earth is meant to be pretend ancient England, bald eagles are North American birds = critical research failure.
Usually I see them done as golden eagles, which is a better choice because the golden eagle has a WAY bigger range and also there are lots of eagles that are large and brown so it's harder to pin them as a specific breed.
I get that this is really nitpicky and the art itself is nice, but… it is seriously distracting.
Yeah I found the bald eagle thing rather distracting too.
Hee, I was just about to comment on the same thing.
WHY ARE THERE BALD EAGLES is gandalf going to fly over the statue of liberty next
AMERICA, FUCK YEAH
oh god my *sides* why do you do this
5 points to Gryffindor, Mark. This was one funny review.
I think you mean Ravenclaw 🙂
So 5 points from Gryffindor to Ravenclaw.
Thanks Hermione.
PLEASE DO ALL YOUR LOTR REVIEWS LIKE THIS FROM NOW ON.
It's like the Cleolinda that just keeps Cleolinding.
Yes!!! THIS. Omg…love.
SAM: Sorry, I had a lot to say.
Sam should make a list! Like Mark! For all his feelings! 😀
Everyone seems to dread this chapter. Of the folks I’ve known who started this book but failed to finnish, every one gave up here. I personally love it, it’s one of my favorites precisely because of the info dump.
me too. I like this chapter
I love this chapter too. It never occurred to me to be intimidated by the info dump, as I found the history of Middle-Earth to be utterly fascinating. (And, to that end, this is a far easier read than the Appendices or The Silmarillion.)
NGL, this way made me giggle:
FNZ: Lbh tbg gb evqr n tvnag rntyr? Gung’f abg snve!
SEBQB: Fnz, ur jnf vzcevfbarq ng gur gbc bs n zbhagnva. V guvax gung’f jbefr.
Ururururur. V ubcr Znex erzrzoref guvf jura jr uvg gur raq bs EbgX.
Vg urycf gung V fnj gur zbivr svefg, fb V unq Zvanf Gvevgu naq Zvanf Zbethy svkrq va zl zvaq jvgu ivfhny ersreraprf. Zvanf Gvevgu vf gur juvgr bar, Zvanf Zbethy vf gur qnex rivy fcbbxl bar jvgu gur terra tybjl yvtug.
<img src="http://www.thechicagoloop.net/tzikeh/ontd/shadowfax.png">
YES.
This GIF = PERFECTION. 😀 😀 😀
YOU CANNOT SIMPLY WALK INTO MORDOR!
(I'm glad we cleared that one up. It seemed previously that Mark had no idea that one cannot walk into Mordor 🙂 )
I loved that one little tidbit that got dropped into Isildur's scroll: "It is precious to me,"
Here is a rendering of "All that is gold does not glitter" by the Poetic Fellowship. I would've posted it sooner, because we've already seen these verses before, but the name of the song (and the filename) is spoilery, so here it is now:
Bilbo to Boromir
Brooks Williams has a beautiful version of it too!
http://www.last.fm/music/Brooks+Williams/_/All+Th…
More art by Katrina Chmiel, a Polish artist and illustrator:
Boromir – portrait
<img src="http://kasiopea.art.pl/sites/default/files/images/Boromir_portret_0.jpg">
Son of Gondor
<img src="http://kasiopea.art.pl/sites/default/files/images/Boromir-portrait_0.jpg" width="600">
"And I tamed him."
<img src="http://kasiopea.art.pl/sites/default/files/images/oswajanie_0.jpg">
That second one of Boromir… please ignore me while I swoon. Wow. XD
Why did I think the first one was Severus Snape, instead of Boromir??? *headdesk* LOL! But I like the pictures a lot! 🙂
I thought it was Snape too;) And then I thought it was Thorgal. I feel confused. It looks great, though:D
Bakshi movie spoilers.
Not that Mark should ever watch it.
So not even bothering with Rot13…
WHY THE HELL IS BOROMIR A VIKING???
And why does he keep his line "Why do you speak of hiding and destroying" when the bit about hiding and destroying was taken out? Same thing with Sam's line about elves. There was just no effort put into that thing at all.
But C3P0 voiced Legolas!! XD
SARUMAN OF MANY COLOURRRSSSS!
*cue psychadelic wizard battle of confusion*
Saruman or…"Aruman"? I never figured out why he did that, and why if he had a reason, he was inconsistent!
I forgot about that!!
"Aruman" …seriously? Wonder if they thought the audience to dense to realize that Saruman /= Sauron. -_-
(SPOILERS AHOY) Weeeell…
Um, that is awesome!
I just tried to re-rot13 that last name after I deciphered it. Tolkien, what are you doing with language?
this is my understanding of the "Minas"es. And the arrows indicate becoming. I should have just used an equals sign
Zvanf Vguvy –> Zvanf Zbethy (vg'f gur terra bar gur Evatjenvguf evqr bhg bs va SbGE. Vg'f nyfb gur bar Sebqb nyzbfg jnyxf vagb va EbGX)
Zvanf Nabe –> Zvanf Gvevgu (gur juvgr bar srngherq cebzvaragyl va EbGX)
V nyjnlf trg Zvanf Zbethy naq Onenq qhe zvkrq hc sbe fbzr ernfba :/
I really want to know what Bombadil is, though. I don't know if this is ever explained or where. The way he's being talked about, it's as if for him, he's got a sort of Somebody Else's Problem Field around him where the Ring is concerned.
Jura vf vg abg n fcbvyre gb yvax Ubepehkrf gb gur Evat?
They keep using the word fat as derogative. I mean, how many times is BARLIMAN BUTTERBUR going to be called fat and have that associated with lack of intelligence or something? With the the hobbits, too, since they're supposed to be fat and timid, with Frodo said early in the book to be least fat and timid.
And in the last chapter, we learn Bombur's now so fat that he can't stand up.
Jura Znex zragvbaf vg uvzfrys? V qhaab.
Yeah, it bothers me how often the "fat people are bumbling fools" stereotype keeps popping up. :/
I'm finally back, work and vacation got in the way and then I had chapters and chapters to catch up on. Still haven't finished this chapter though. I'm listening along and I'm up to Chapter 202V. This goes up to Chapter 202Z6.
So much information! I admire everybody for being able to sit through one of Gandalf's stories. They are pretty much never ending and filled with countless details. My mom tells stories like this and I can't pay attention for that long. If she has somebody else in her audience as well, I some times walk away for a bit and it's still going when I return.
I want to have a title with a color attached to it. Gandalf the White, Saruman of Many Colors, Rathauser (I have no idea what his name is but I think it stars with an R?) the Brown. I could be stellaaaaakris the Aquamarine.
And I'm glad Sam is keeping an eye out for Merry and Pippin. Pippin's my favorite because of reasons.
Gandalf is the Grey. No one gets to be White anymore frown frown frown
Ahhh, you are right! Silly me. Saruman's greed for so Many Colors must have thrown me off. I plead haste, trying to dash off a comment in between meetings. Gandalf the Grey has such a nice ring to it, I can't believe I messed it up. Thanks for the correction!
<img src="http://pics.livejournal.com/ravenclaw42/pic/0015x8r8">
<img src="http://pics.livejournal.com/ravenclaw42/pic/00161p5w">
BU TBQ GUVF ZRZR. Naq gurer ner cyragl bhg gurer gung qba'g vaibyir zbivr fcbvyref. :Q V unir n sbyqre shyy, ohg V'yy gel abg gb fcnz. Qba'g jnag gb jrne bhg gur zrzr'f jrypbzr orsber jr pna unir gur barf jvgu FO, orpnhfr gubfr ner gur orfg.
(A spoilers-by-association one! This one, though. I can't even. I mean. *dies*)
My favorite "walk" meme is gur Yrb fgehg naq Obebzve'f Snprcnyz. (Don't click if you haven't seen the movies!!!)
I think you linked that wrong because it just goes back to this page. But I know exactly which one you're talking about!
Me fail linking? That's unpossible!
Trying again – don't click if no movie seen, yada yada.
That's one of my favorites too! Although there is one that actually has the line right (that really bothered me lol)
I always get a giggle out of this one:
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/…
Hahaha…this is awesome! 😀
I love this one, myself. (Movie spoilers, and long .gif is long)
That is BEAUTIFUL.
I… I think I ripped my stitches from an appendix operation I had 10 years ago… x-D x-D x-D x-D x-D
THAT ONE IS MY FAVORITE
That is my favorite. I saw it years and years ago and nearly died because I was laughing so hard.
Oh man. I used to have that saved and then my computer corrupted the file. I missed it!
Avatar! 😀 I miss Mark Watches ATLA. Good times~
<img src=http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8897/golkoh3.jpg>
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH D:
eeeehehehe
this made my day 😀
Here's an A:TLA one I made (spoilers for FOTR film, obviously) 😀
V npghnyyl cbfgrq vg qhevat gur N:GYN erivrjf, ohg ubcrshyyl Znex jba'g erzrzore vg nf n fcbvyre… *oyhfurf*
Rkprcg gung gur Qnatrebhf Ynqvrf gbgnyyl qvq! Bu, Nmhyn, V ybir lbh. <3
Having seen that Monty Python one, I now badly want a skit where they do, in fact, silly-walk into Mordor.
All of these memes and no one brings up this one? For shame. (Movie spoilers!)
That was the original, right? The one that started it all?
Classic! B-)
Or for all you Dr Who fans (FOTR spoilers): http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/56858
A little different, but this one made me laugh so hard. (Movie spoilers, etc etc)
OH MY GOD. That one takes me back 😀 I miss that fandom so much.
You know, I think that after reading the books, Mark should review the EEs first, and THEN review the commentaries and extras, because they're all brilliant. I love the jokes and the behind-the-scenes camaraderie among the cast and the crew. 😀
OMG, that one is brilliant! 😀 😀 😀
Tauriel's Linguistic Corner
(A huge thanks to Ardalambion, which is my primary source of info. 🙂 )
In this chapter: no actual Elvish, but a GAZILLION names of people and places. And one sentence in Black Speech:
Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.
From the structure of this (since we know the translation), the following can be deduced:
– Nazg evidently means "ring", which is also supported by the name of the Ringwraiths, Nazgûl.
– Ash means the number "one".
– Agh is the conjunction "and".
– durbat, gimbat, thrakat and krimpat are either infinitive forms of the verbs "to rule", "to find", "to bring" and "to bind", or they are special "intentive" forms that indicate purpose – "for ruling", "for bringing", "for finding", "for binding".
– the suffix -ul means "them".
– the suffix -ûk means "all".
– burzum means "darkness", -ishi is a suffix meaning "in".
Right, and now let's get to the List of Gazillion Elvish Names. 😀 I'm going to do ALL of them (well, all those I can find meanings of 😉 And I'm leaving out those that might happen later, and I'm not sure whether or not they're translated in the text), and in the order as they appear in the chapter.
Also, small note on pronunciation: "c" is always pronounced as "k", even when followed by a vowel. So Círdan is pronounced "Kírdan", not "Sírdan". 😉
Elrond – "Star vault". Sindarinised version of Quenya name Elerondo: él is an archaic word for "star", used mainly in names (elen is the common Quenya word for "star"); rondo means "vault", "dome", "vaulted roof".
Bruinen – "Loudwater". Sindarin origin: brui = loud, noisy; nên = water.
Círdan – "Shipwright". It's literally the Sindarin word for "shipbuilder"; derived from cair = ship, in compounds it changes to cír-.
Legolas – "Greenleaf". Sindarin origin: laeg = "green" (in the Woodlands dialect it's lêg); lass = "leaf". Just for fun, the Quenya version would be "Laiquelasso".
Boromir – Tolkien described this name as "mixed form". Bôr means "steadfast man" in Sindarin (boron- in compounds); mîr = "jewel". Quenya version would probably be "Voromírë".
(con'd below)
(con’d)
Moria – “The Black Chasm”. Derived from Sindarin word môr which means “darkness”.
Eregion – Hollywood. :p No, seriously, it means “Land of Holly”; Men call it “Hollin”. Sindarin origin: rêg = holly (reg in compounds).
Celebrimbor – “Hand of Silver”. Sindarin origin: celeb = silver; celebrin = adjective “of/like silver”; bor is a compound form of paur = “closed hand”, “fist”.
Númenor – “Westernesse”, “Westland”. Sindarinised version of the Quenya name “Númenórë”. Derived from Quenya númen = “west”.
Elendil – “Star Lover” or “Elf-friend”. Quenya origin: -ndil is a suffix in male names meaning “friend” or “lover”. Second meaning can be derived from the word for “Elves” – Eldar, meaning “People of the Stars”.
Isildur – “Moon-servant”. Quenya origin: Isil = “Moon”; -ndur is a suffix in male names meaning “servant” (in this case it’s used as -dur, since you can’t have three consonants in a row).
Anárion – “Sun-son”. Quenya origin: Anar = “Sun”; -ion is a patronymic ending meaning “son of” or “descendant”.
Arnor – “Land of the King”. Quenya origin: ar- = prefix meaning “high”, “royal”, “noble”; -nor = “land”. Long version is Arandórë.
Gondor – “Land of Stone”. Sindarin origin: gond = “stone”; dôr = “land”.
Mordor – “The Black Land”. Sindarin origin: môr = “black”, “dark”; dôr = “land”.
Dagorlad – “Battle plain”. Sindarin origin: dagor = “battle”; lâd = “plain”, “lowland”.
(con’d below)
LOL HOLLYWOOD. I love this stuff.
Gah, I missed a after rêg in there, everything is in italics now… grr… Could some mod please go and edit it in? I'd be most grateful. 🙂
(con’d)
Aiglos (also spelled “Aeglos”) – “Snow-point”. Sindarin origin: aeg = “thorn”, “peak”, “point”, also an adjective meaning “sharp”, “piercing”; loss = “snow”.
Narsil – the translation isn’t given anywhere, but since it combines the stems for “Sun” = Anar and “Moon” = “Isil”, we can assume the name means something like “Light of the Sun and the Moon”.
Orodruin – “Mountain of Blazing Fire”. Sindarin origin: orod = “mountain” (plural form is ered; see below); ruin = “blazing fire”.
Annúminas – “Tower of the West”. Sindarin origin: annûn = “west”; minas = “tower”.
Fornost – “Northern Fortress”. Sindarin origin: fôr = north (also “forod”); ost = “city”, “stronghold”, “fortress”.
Osgiliath – “Citadel of the Stars”. Sindarin origin: ost = “stronghold”, “city”; giliath = “stars” (singular form is gîl – appears in Gilthoniel).
Minas Ithil, Minas Anor – they use Sindarin words Ithil and Anor for “Moon” and “Sun”.
Morgul – “Black sorcery”. Sindarin origin: môr = “black”, “dark”; gûl = “sorcery”.
Meneldil – “Heaven-friend”. Quenya origin: menel = “heavens”; -ndil is a suffix in male names meaning “friend”, “lover” (here used as “-dil”, since you can’t have three consonants in a row).
Anduin – “The Long River”. Sindarin origin: and = “long”; duin = “large river”.
Imladris – “Rivendell”, literally “Deep Dale of the Cleft”. Sindarin origin: imlad = “deep valley”, “narrow valley with steep sides”; ris is a compound form of rist = “cleft” (note: this stem is also found in Orcrist = “The Goblin Cleaver”)
Dol Guldur – “Hill of Sorcery”. Sindarin origin: dôl = “hill”, “head”; gûl = “sorcery”.
Orthanc – “Forked Height”. Sindarin origin: ôr is a form of orod = “mountain”; thanc = “forked”.
Ered Nimrais – “White Mountains”. Sindarin origin: ered = “mountains” (singular form is “orod”); nim = “white”, “pale”; rais = “peaks” (singular form is “rass”).
So if "gûl" is "sorcery," is "Nazgûl" "ring-Sorcerers"?
Well, "gûl" is a Sindarin word, whereas "nazg" is from Black Speech. Hard to say, really, if such combination of words from two utterly different languages would work… The official explanation is that "Nazgûl" simply means "Ringwraith" (or Ringwraiths – Nazgûl is the same in singular and plural).
They could meet halfway and be Naz-ghouls. ^_^
Ugh, no, sorry, I really hate it when people write it as "Nazghul".
And the extended meaning of Aeglos = "snow point" = icicle.
Laiquelasso?! I love it.
Thank you for these!
Thanks for linking to that site! I have a feeling I'll need it when I begin re-reading Silmarillion for real. And your linguistic corners are awesome as always.
Thanks. 🙂 I enjoy typing them (although this one took me hours! 😀 ).
Jung V unqa'g cvpxrq hc orsber vf gung "ohehmhz" zrnaf qnexarff. Juvpu znxrf frafr bs gur Bepvfu anzr Yhtohem sbe Onenq-qhe. Fb gung zrnaf Yht cebonoyl zrnaf gbjre, znxvat gur anzr (gur) Qnex Gbjre.
Gbyxvra ynathntrf ner njrfbzr, rira gur aba-pbzcyrgr barf. V qba'g xabj nal bgure obbxf jrer bar pna unir guvf xvaq bs nanylfvf gung npghnyyl jbexf.
Hello and welcome to
Info Dump: The Chapter
😀
Good Lord, where to even begin? I like this chapter – even though it is a bit tiring (I completely sympathise with Bilbo, who's always itching for a break and a meal). It's a HUGE info dump – but it's a very interesting info dump, at least for me. There's quite a lot of history – both ancient and more recent – and a lot of gaps in the story so far are filled (like where the hell was Gandalf all this time).
And since we established last Friday that LISTS ARE TEH AWESOME (haterz to the left, plz), here's my list:
– So Balin, Ori and Óin went to Moria 30 years ago, and things went well, but then the news stopped. O noez, what happened? 🙁
“As a small token only of your friendship Sauron asks this,” he said: “that you should find this thief,” such was his word, “and get from him, willing or no, a little ring, the least of rings, that once he stole. It is but a trifle that Sauron fancies, and an earnest of your good will. Find it, and three rings that the Dwarf sires possessed of old shall be returned to you, and the realm of Moria shall be yours for ever.
Sauron, you lying, cunning, devious bastard. "But a trifle that Sauron fancies", eh? Thankfully, Dáin is not deceived, and basically tells Sauron's messenger to GTFO. Go Dáin! B-)
– Bad news, though – war seems to be coming to Dale and the Dwarven Kingdom under the Mountain.
– Interesting factoids about Elrond: he's 6517 years old, his father is a star, and his great-grandmother was Lúthien Tinúviel. Not bad, eh? 😀
– History of the Last Alliance
– More history of Gondor
– Boromir is being proud and condescending, so Bilbo puts him in his place:
‘Not very good perhaps, but to the point – if you need more beyond the word of Elrond. If that was worth a journey of a hundred and ten days to hear, you had best listen to it.’ He sat down with a snort.
Snarky Bilbo is snarky, and it is BEAUTIFUL. <3 😀
(con'd below)
'And yet less thanks have we than you. Travellers scowl at us, and countrymen give us scornful names. “Strider” I am to one fat man who lives within a day’s march of foes that would freeze his heart or lay his little town in ruin, if he were not guarded ceaselessly. Yet we would not have it otherwise.'
BLESS YOU, ARAGORN. <3 <3 <3
– Then there is the long proof that the ring Bilbo found in Gollum's cave is indeed the One Ring.
– And then we learn that Gollum has escaped the prison in Mirkwood. OH, BUGGER.
– And then Gandalf tells his story, how he was held captive by Saruman and how Saruman is now EVIL and everything is OH NOEZ WTF??!!! Thankfully, Gwaihir the Lord of Eagles saves him!
– Which means that at least one of Frodo's dreams in Tom Bombadil's house was a true vision.
– So we know of three wizards so far: Saruman the White, Gandalf the Grey, Radagast the Brown.
‘ “Butterbur they call him,” thought I. “If this delay was his fault, I will melt all the butter in him. I will roast the old fool over a slow fire.” He expected no less, and when he saw my face he fell down flat and began to melt on the spot.’
😀 😀 😀 Gandalf's threats are the best thing ever. Also, LOL @ Butterbur for thinking that the hobbit's decision to go with Strider was a bad thing.
– So those flashes above Weathertop that Strider and the hobbits observed really WERE caused by Gandalf's fight with the Nazgûl.
– And then at last we come to the important question: What shall we do with the One Ring? As it turns out, we can't hide it. We can't give it to Tom Bombadil. We can't throw it to the Sea. We can't send it over the Sea, because those who dwell there would basically go, "Nope, this is your Middle-earth business. DEAL WITH IT." We can't use it. We can't even destroy it by our craft or skill. There's only one thing that can be done: the Ring must be taken to Mordor and thrown into a volcano.
And then…
An overwhelming longing to rest and remain at peace by Bilbo’s side in Rivendell filled all his heart. At last with an effort he spoke, and wondered to hear his own words, as if some other will was using his small voice.
‘I will take the Ring,’ he said, ‘though I do not know the way.’
So it is done. BLESS YOU, FRODO BAGGINS. <3
‘But it is a heavy burden. So heavy that none could lay it on another. I do not lay it on you. But if you take it freely, I will say that your choice is right; and though all the mighty elf-friends of old, Hador, and Húrin, and Túrin, and Beren himself were assembled together your seat should be among them.’
I will not spoil you for Silmarillion, Mark, when I say that THIS IS HIGH PRAISE INDEED. Fuck yeah, Frodo Baggins, you brave hobbit.
– SAM!!! <3 <3 <3 Your loyalty is awesome.
Frodo is just great. loved your comments
he's 6517 years old, his father is a star
LOL SO HE IS.
BRB LAUGHING FOREVER MARK YOU ARE THE BEST.
THAT IS ALL.
I love this chapter because it's the first one where we are exposed to the really smart strategizing by the elders: "the enemy will expect us to do X, therefore we will do Y". I played chess when I was younger, but I had never really understood the importance of strategy and understanding your opponent before I read this book.
good point re strategy here
Mark, that was ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS. 😀 😀 😀
I insist, you definitely must re-write the whole LOTR in this manner and publish it. Instant bestseller, this stuff… 😀
<img src="http://www.thechicagoloop.net/tzikeh/ontd/namesmountdoom.png">
lolololol
I thought the mountain's official name was Orodruin (spelling?) and Mount Doom is something like a shorthand nickname.
Yes, but everything else in the books is called by its whatever-language name; some things are even called by several names. Yet everyone constantly refers to Mount Doom as Mount Doom.
It's just REALLY DOOM-Y OKAY
lol
lolololol
I don't know, is it any better than "Death Mountain" in the Legend of Zelda games?
That depends. Did the creators of the Legend of Zelda games invent two entirely original languages, each with its own graphemes, phonology, grammar, and syntax, for the game?
Well, technically, that mountain has three names… 😉
Xunmnq-qûz yvgrenyyl zrnaf Qjneebjqrys – "Qjneira Unyyf". "Xuhmq" zrnaf "Qjnes", cyheny vf "xunmnq" = "Qjneirf".
Zbevn vf gur anzr Ryirf tvir vg naq zrnaf "Gur Oynpx Punfz".
"FNZ: Lbh tbg gb evqr n tvnag rntyr? Gung’f abg snve!
SEBQB: Fnz, ur jnf vzcevfbarq ng gur gbc bs n zbhagnva. V guvax gung’f jbefr.
FNZ: V’z abg tbvat gb trg nalguvat V jnag, nz V?"
BU ZNEX fbzrgvzrf V qb gehyl jbaqre vs ur vf gebyyvat hf… Whfg or cngvrag, Fnz!
"FRODO: Seriously, Sam, you’re supposed to be spying. Shut up."
LMAO!
This was fantastic, I will read properly and comment asap!
Dhvpx dhrfgvba: Abj gung Znex xabjf gur raq tbny bs guvf dhrfg vf Zbhag Qbbz, pna jr yrg uvz xabj nobhg uvf oevyyvnapr onpx va uvf erivrj bs gur Uboovg (jvgu Puevfgbcure nfxvat nobhg gur ibypnab)? Vs abg, jura qb lbh guvax jbhyq or n tbbq gvzr?
Not only do we learn that Aragorn and the Rangers are protecting people by patrolling the North but that Boromir and the men of Gondor have been a bulwark in the South. "Ingratitude, thou marble-hearted fiend!" Aragorn seems to take the lack of gratitude and awareness of what he is doing on the chin but Boromir is upset and angry that so few people realise that Gondor has been guarding their backs for so long, have lost so much and have had no aid. It says something about the characters of the two men – and something about the relaxed attitude of those who are protected by them.
The first time I read this chapter, I found the info dump hard going. But, the second time, after also reading The Hobbit, it became one of my favourite chapters. Tolkien is gathering all the pieces of the jigsaw together and fitting the pieces together in a very satisfying manner.
yes – I think Tolkien is a great story teller, putting all these pieces in place and then into play
This is one of the chapters that earned the book the title of "super dense and detailed forever" because of all the info dumping. Good times.
I love Sam hiding during this chapter. As if the magical, sassy badass wizard and the ancient elf lord wouldn't notice Sam listening in…
Sam's bromance with Frodo is adorable.
Spoiler for Neil Gaiman’s Sandman:
TYBVA: Jnvg, fb jung unccraf vs jr qrfgebl gur Evat?
RYEBAQ: Jryy, V fhccbfr jr qba’g xabj.
TYBVA: Jung vs vg znxrf Fnheba fhcre cbjreshy?
RYEBAQ: V fhccbfr gung’f n evfx jr fubhyq gnxr.
Gunax tbbqarff vg qvqa’g jbex sbe Fnheba yvxr vg qvq sbe Zbecurhf.
Ununun, lrf, gung jbhyq'ir orra irel onq vaqrrq. V gubhtug bs gung juvyr ernqvat guvf puncgre gbb!
Since Tolkien didn't know from rainbows, I've always assumed that Saruman's move to "many colors" means that he's no longer satisfied with being himself. He wants MORE.
But it's so hard to read that bit without adding subtext!
Who is John Galt?
😉
/actually likes Ayn Rand
"John Galt? Oh, he's that bloke I used to work with down at the motor company. Clever guy — invented a perpetual motion machine. Why did you ask that like it was some big mystery?" :p
I just love that out of everyone at this council, including Gandalf, Elrond and other ancient elves, and Boromir, who claims he comes from a people battling the Enemy, and Aragorn, a descendent of Ilsidur, it is the halflings who step up. Bilbo and Frodo both volunteer for this dangerous journey, and Sam steps forward as well. Something about the hobbits shouldering that responsibility is amazing to me, because even the most Tookish of them couldnt possibly want to wander so far and so long from their comfy homes. It is antithetical to their nature, and so brave. This line Is just amazing to me, because it shows Frodo understands that he his way out of his depth, but can feel the gravity of the situation:
“‘I will take the Ring,’ he said, ‘though I do not know the way.'”
Love Frodo. It's the hoobbits that make this book special, I think. Other fantasies have tried to emulate by making the heroes children, but that doesn't appeal to me. I like the fact that the main characters are grown adults, but hobbits, and thus have a unique take on things.
That's one of my favorite lines. Gives me shivers.
I'm so glad Mark liked this chapter! Yes, it's an info-dump, but it's also several stories rolled into one. We get Gloin's story of what's happened in Erebor, We get Elrond's potted history of the Second Age– which of course for him was simply a stroll down memory lane. We get the stories of the capture and escape of Gollum, and Gandalf's account of his captivity! Each one is interspersed with interruptions that just make the story more interesting (reminds me of Gandalf telling Beorn his story bit by bit as he is interrupted by the Dwarves coming along).
And Bilbo was awesome! Sticking up for his friend the Dunadan, and then offering to take the Ring himself. Of course he meant it, and of course he was hoping to let Frodo off the hook.
But I love Frodo so much here! "I will take the Ring. Though I do not know the way."
One of my favorite quotes is in this chapter:
"Now is the hour of the Shire folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the counsels and the towers of the Great."
*grin* Go Shirefolk!!
But I love Frodo so much here! "I will take the Ring. Though I do not know the way."
Gur jnl Ryvwnu Jbbq fnlf guvf yvar whfg oernxf zl urneg rirel gvzr V jngpu guvf cneg bs gur zbivr.
^ This ^
yes, Go Shirefolk!
I can't help but think that Tolkien is remembering all those young men who volunteered during WWI.
THIS. *sniff*
Crgre Wnpxfba npghnyyl vafgehpgrq Vna ZpXryyna gb vzntvar uvf fba unq whfg gbyq uvz ur jnf wbvavat gur nezl qhevat Jbeyq Jne V sbe Tnaqnys'f ernpgvba gb Sebqb'f fgngrzrag.
Honestly, I would love to be a hobbit. Doing good, honest work, eating, drinking, hanging with your friends…
And when the going gets tough, well you hitch up your britches and jnyx vagb Zbeqbe yvxr vg'f ab ovt qrny.
Rntyr rk znpuvan pbhag: 3.
BEHOLD, ISILDUR'S BANE!
Ahem, sorry. After finally catching up with the end of The Hobbit and the beginning of Lord of the Rings (I guess flu is good for something) I have a review that is basically just a love letter to various characters.
Firstly, OH MY SAMWISE GAMGEE! Why will you not just be my best friend and sneak into secret meetings your not invited to (really badly. I'm pretty sure they said he just followed them in and sat in the corner) and then volunteer to follow me on dangerous journeys. And not even to see Elves. Sam is awesome.
Boromir's staunch defense of Gondor every time someone mentions its waning defense warms the cockles of my heart. "Gondor stands, and even the end of its strength is very strong. SO THERE!"
And Gandalf, your beautiful trolling of Saruman does not escape by notice: "For here am I Saruman the blah de blah, rainbow hued, all the shades, red to indigo, Saruman of many colours!" … "Eh, I preferred white." 😛
I did wonder, when Radagast the Brown turned up, how many other coloured wizards there are. Will they bump into Geoffery the Pink and Thomas the Orange? Have to run from Saruman's evil henchman Frederick the Aquamarine? Or even, in the depths of the wild, bump into the long lost Sebastian the Midnight – Blue?
I certainly hope so.
In other news, I love Bilbo's casual "Oh yeah, alright then, I'll pop over to these cracks of fire that you keep going on about, and drop in the ring. No biggie." <3 Luckily Frodo is his Uncle's nephew (or cousin's cousin. What relation are they again?) and offers to take it instead. Even though he "does not know the way." DW Frodo, there's a map at the front of the book.
This chapter has some beautiful lines in it
Yes sir, this chapter has some wonderful lines in it!
Frederick the Aquamarine XD You have officially made my day. I would totally read a book with that protagonist. (Actually that name sounds like it should be in a Terry Pratchett book…)
He sometimes prefers Frederick the Sea-Foam Green. XD
Evqphyyl gur Oebja! V sbetbg gung ur npghnyyl qvq gung!
Jbhyq unir ybirq gb unir frra fbzr zber rkpvgvat pbybhef gubhtu.
Marion the Maroon. Cedric the Cerulean. I could literally do this all day.
IS THAT WHERE SARUMAN'S COLOURS CAME FROM? HE ABSORBED THE REST OF THE SPECTRUM OF WIZARDS? Only Grey and Brown are left, because they are not fabulous enough.
Unlike poor Pablo the Puce. He was fabulosity itself.
Will they bump into Geoffery the Pink and Thomas the Orange? Have to run from Saruman's evil henchman Frederick the Aquamarine? Or even, in the depths of the wild, bump into the long lost Sebastian the Midnight – Blue?
THIS WOULD BE AWESOME
Cvgl Gbyxvra qvqa'g ernyyl qrirybc gur fgbel bs Nyyngne naq Cnyynaqb, gur gjb Oyhr Jvmneqf jub geniryrq sne Rnfg naq… orpnzr ybfg? Jrag onq? QNZZVG, GBYXVRA, QBA'G YRNIR VG JVGU N PYVSSUNATRE!!!
Nuuu ernyyl? Vf guvf va gur Fvyznevyyvba? Gung vf zbivat hc zl gb-ernq cvyr 🙂 Naq urer V gubhtug V jnf whfg orvat fvyyl!
Va gur Fvyznevyyvba vg'f bayl zragvbarq gung bgure Vfgnev pnzr jvgu Fnehzna, Tnaqnys naq Enqntnfg, ohg jrag gb gur Rnfg bs Zvqqyr-rnegu naq "qb abg pbzr vagb gurfr gnyrf".
Gur Hasvavfurq Gnyrf rkcnaq ba guvf fyvtugyl, naq fubj ubj gur Vfgnev jrer pubfra ol gur Inyne naq frag gb Zvqqyr-rnegu; gurer gur Oyhr Jvmneqf Nyyngne naq Cnyynaqb ner anzrq.
Ah but what KIND of blue? This is important.
I'd go for Azure and Indigo – mainly because I can't think of one with P.
I wonder what they were doing all this time. I like to imagine eating popcorn and laughing at the misfortune of the others in their magic wizardy telescopes, possibly hanging with Sebastian and Cedric (all the others are shunned, for obvious reasons).
If there were more hours in the day I would be ALL OVER writing fanfic on this.
Periwinkle!
BRILLIANT. 🙂
V unir orra nyjnlf orra vagevthrq ol Nyngne naq Cnyynaqb. Vs vg vf uneq sbe crbcyr gb unir zhpu ybir sbe Tybesvaqry, gura Nyngne naq Cnyynaqb ner gehyl ybfg va gur jrrqf.
Gur gurbel V yvxr orfg vf gung gurl ner Urebrf bs Nabgure Fgbel, naq vs gurl unqa'g tbar rnfg, gur Rnfgreyvatf gung sybpxrq gb Zbeqbe jbhyq unir birejuryzrq gur Jrfg.
I like that theory. 🙂
Crowning moment of awesome for me will always be Aragorn finally snapping and losing his patience.
Yes, he recovers quickly, but it is good to see that he does have a temper below that cool exterior; and I love his sardonic wit when he loses that temper.
Question… what time are these reviews going to be showing up? I was looking for this this morning,then had to run to class and now have no time to rot13 everything since I have another class rapidly approaching. I'll still be back, but yeah- when will they be posted? Just for future reference 🙂
Anyway- on to the story! This review was magnificence incarnate, because holy lord, this chapter is long. I have to admit, I love it… but so much info all at once. I've always liked hearing Elrond's history in this chapter, and a lot more things in this make sense now that I've been skimming Silmarillion again. I like hearing all the history about Middle-Earth and how everyone has been dealing in some way with Sauron stirring again. It brings it home that, despite all the vastness of Middle-Earth, Sauron is still able to spread his influence and use it almost everywhere, from Hobbiton to the Lonely Mountain and even beyond. Given that he's the original cliched Dark Lord, it's almost surprising to see that he's rather more proactive than most of his more generic clones in Fantasyland.
I think around 7 am PST? Maybe earlier.
I think that's about it. This particular review was late because of WordPress being weird, but usually they go up at around 9am for me, which is 7am for Mark.
As many people have pointed out, this chapter is a heck of an info dump. I think it helps that there's not just one person explaining everything–*cough*Dumbledore*cough*–but rather different people providing pieces of information that all get pulled together.
I love Bilbo forever for jumping up to volunteer to take the Ring. He may be old, but he's still a hero at heart. 🙂 And Frodo! I don't remember how many times I've read LOTR, but I still get a thrill from his 'I will take the Ring. Though I do not know the way."
me too. I always get a thrill when Frodo says that.
In an alternate universe where they did toss the ring into the sea, a well-meaning octopus found it and became Cthulu. My own head-canon.
Gosh I forget how dense the Council of Elrond is. I mean, damn.
I love how Legolas is there only to say, "Oh hey, we lost Gollum, LOL, jsyk."
Yes, before taking the ring, Cthulhu was a mild-mannered professor of Marine Biology and Non-Euclidian Geometry at Miskatonic University
IKR? And he does take forever to say that. A good messenger would have gone directly to Gandalf and told him. Then again, having a group around when delivering bad news to Gandalf is probably a good idea.
I wonder if those in charge were like "NO DON'T TELL ME ANYTHING LALALALA SAVE IT FOR THE COUNCIL"
Maybe Gandalf just likes to be surprised.
N jvmneq vf arire fhecevfrq. Ur nyjnlf xabjf cerpvfryl jung ur arrqf gb xabj.
Or, like in most good fairy-stories, the ring is tossed into the sea, a fish swallows it, a fishing boat catches the fish and the fish is served up to Sauron the very next day. And when he cuts it open…….da-daaah!!
Some pictures of Gwaihir:
http://www-images.theonering.org/torwp/wp-content…
Bilbo, Gandalf, and the Eagles – by Ted Nasmith
http://content7.flixster.com/question/41/45/34/41…
…Rescuing Gandalf (also by Ted Nasmith)
http://tolkiengateway.net/w/images/thumb/d/d9/Ste…
Escape from Orthanc – by Stephen Hickman
And if anyone knows how to embed images and will tell me – I'll make a post where you can actually see the pictures.
[img src="image url"] (replace [ ] with < > )
Gandalf: I'm alright… I was saved by a giant eeeeeeeeeeagle
Whoever knows what this is from wins the internet and stuff…
Really?? Nobody???
I'm not gonna lie, I am slightly disappointed.
I award no internet and no stuff
FLIGHT OF THE CONCHORDS.
Clearly you were just waiting for me to wake up and get online 😛
P.S. "Tnaqnys, zl byq sevraq. *orng* V ybir jung lbh'ir qbar jvgu gur orneq." <– BEST LINE EVER OR BEST LINE EVER?
Um, I'm gonna go with BEST LINE EVER!!
Also, FINALLY. Seeing as how I only waited a few hours, the real loser here is my patience.
Here is your internet and your stuff.
Hurray, I actaully appear! And get dialogue and history and stuff! Plus, apologies to the Shirefolk for caling their land 'uncouth'. I knew not what I spoke of. 😉
But, seriously, I picked this username over a decade ago (often just 'Radagast', adding the 'Wiz' when that's not available) and have since found brown to be the predominant colour in my wardrobe; I have a fondness for nature and the outdoors; and have (something of) a beard.
Bs pbhefr, V jvfu gurer jnf zber bs zr va guvf ohg ab fhpu yhpx. Fgvyy, n cerggl pbby punenpgre nf ybat nf ur ynfgf, naq V ybbx sbejneq gb frrvat Flyirfgre ZpPbl (n Qbpgbe Jub! Lnl!) gnxr ba gur ebyr va gur Uboovg zbivrf.
Vg'f abg "n Qbpgbe Jub", vg'f "gur Qbpgbe"!!! /avgcvpxre :p
V'z jryy njner – V'z n ovt Jub sna gbb – V jnf whfg hfvat fubegunaq vs nal aba-Jubivnaf jrer nobhg.
Orcs.
I don't believe that knowing what they are is spoilery, but just in case:
In my version of The Hobbit, there is a section in the beginning that defines the term, before the main book. In the actual text of The Hobbit it gets defined again slightly differently (but mostly the same).
Here is the answer to "what are orcs" in ROT13:
Bepf ner whfg tboyvaf, cbffvoyl n "ynetre" inevngvba, ohg V nyjnlf haqrefgbbq gurz gb or gur rknpg fnzr tboyvaf nf sebz Gur Uboovg.
V npghnyyl ernq Gur Uboovg NSGRE YBGE, fb V jnf dhvgr guebja bss sbe n juvyr.
V nterr jvgu lbh. Vg'f rkgen-pbashfvat, gubhtu, orpnhfr FBZRJURER va YBGE (Tbq xabjf jurer, vg'f abg rknpgyl frnepunoyr) gurer'f n ersrerapr gb "tboyvaf" juvpu nyjnlf yrnirf zr guvaxvat "Uhu?" V fhfcrpg vg jnf whfg gur nhgube abg abgvpvat.
In all honesty, I actually LOVE the Council of Elrond. I've been skimming a lot of these chapters to keep up with Mark, since I've forgotten so many of these little details, but last night I sat and fully re-read this one.
And I adore the play format, Mark. Seriously.
I love the Wizards! I'm not sure if this is spoilery, but just in case: Gurer ner npghnyyl svir Jvmneqf, abg guerr. Nyngne naq Cnyynaqb jrer gur Oyhr Jvmneqf, jub jrag vagb gur Rnfg naq jrer arire urneq sebz ntnva.
Although some people like to debate what happened there, like me. 😀 I wrote a story about that situation, called "Not All Who Wander Are Lost". It's at lotrgfic.com, under the pen name Kaylee Arafinwiel. It's not exactly spoilery for LotR, as there's no LotR characters in it, but it might confuse you if you haven't read the Silm.
<3 LEGOLAS! <3
God, I LOVE these play reviews…
THIS. 😀 *loves my Elves*
Random thoughts on names:
Radagast reminds me rather a lot of S:t Francis, but his name sounds like Ratatosk. So I'm imagining S:t Francis crossed with a squirrel, and that's just weird.
Every time I see the name Eärendil, I have to remind myself that ä in English isn't pronounced the way it is in Swedish. I keep thinking E-air-endil, when of course it should be E-ar-endil.
Go to google maps.
Input :the shire
Input destination: Mordor
Choose Method of travel: Pedestrian.
Google Maps urges you to: Use caution – One does not simply walk into Mordor.
God, I love the Internet.
HOLY MACAROONS that is amazing!
It's even better that Mordor is in Chicago. rotflmao
Congratulations on surviving the Council of Elrond!
Also, I love your play reviews.
So is Saruman Joe Cabot? Or is he Mr. Orange, since…
I'll just leave this here.
<img src="http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h213/amyberries2/walktomordor.jpg">
This looks shopped, at least on the bottom part, but:
<img src="http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/220/604/footpath%20to%20mordor.jpg">
Yeah, it's definitely shopped; they didn't even TRY to make the text look printed properly. The angle is completely wrong.
(Also, I'm designating this Silly Image Thread.)
<img src="http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/216/974/Mortar.png">
HA!
I wish I had more.
SILLY IMAGES THREAD, GO FORTH!
Jack totally WOULD simply walk into Mordor, and looking mighty dashing! <3 <3 <3
It's practically the Torchwood motto!
Torchwood: We Simply Walk In (And Shoot It)
<img src="http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/014/431/JZS7YYJQCVROVKLBQQ54HA33HWG5APE3.jpeg">
<img class='event-item-lol-image' src='http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/12/2/129042646049082961.jpg' id='_r_a_2910817280' title="ONE DOES NOT SILLY WALK INTO MORDOR" alt="ONE DOES NOT SILLY WALK INTO MORDOR" />
"Things were okay in Dáin until a horseman from Mordor arrived…"
Haha awesome, so Dain had no problem with any of his internal organs until a horseman from Mordor arrived, at which point his colon immediately relaxed and he shat his pants.
"ARAGORN: Look, I’ve been to some weird places and seen some weird shit, man."
Hahaha, this is the best sum up of Aragorn's lines at this council EVER.
V ybir gung Znex chyyf n Ovyob ol univat Tnaqnys or fhecevfrq ol Tbyyhz'f rfpncr, jura va gur irel arkg puncgre Ovyob pynvzf gur fnzr guvat naq gur Tnaqnys vf nyy yvxr, "Ab lbh vanggragvir qbyg, V nyernql xarj nobhg vg orpnhfr Tjnvuve gbyq zr."
I also find it interesting that Mark essentially skipped, among other things, the whole Bombadil discussion.
V nz fhfcvpvbhf. Fnz qbrfa'g whzc sebz oruvaq n ohfu va gur obbx, ur qbrf gung va gur zbivr. Va gur obbx ur vf fvggvat dhvrgyl va n pbeare.
That said, I am hugely amused by how quickly the comments topped 500 on this chapter.
They were over 500 this afternoon, but tonight it says 396? I wonder what happened?
OOps. There were 500 on the previous one and over 300 on this one. But I shouldn't be allowed to type without my glasses. (wrote "here" for "hear" too in a different comment.)
Mark, you are a treasure.
There is one misconception that you appear to have (which I'm pretty sure is meant to be clear from context in the chapter): Orthanc is a tower, not a mountain. So it's just "Orthanc", not "the Orthanc".
I think Saruman's multicolor dreamcoat is supposed to reflect his valuing of worldly things.
An enthusiastic thumbs-up for "multicolor dreamcoat"!
Oh, Mark, another great & hilarious review! Love the play format! <3
"GLOIN: Yes, of course. Moria Durin Khazad-dûm Thrór and Dáin Mordor and other words that no one else is going to understand and what am I saying. FRODO: No, seriously, what are you talking about?"
Haha, yeah for the first-time reader this chapter is so packed full of names and places never before referenced. It gets a bit confusing sometimes. The only thing I had going for me on my first read through is that I had seen the movies and was familiar with a majority of the references, otherwise I would have been SO CONFUSED!
Also:
"ELROND: Behold Isildur’s Bane!
SAM: That….that is like the coolest exclamation I’ve ever heard. Can I start using that?
ARAGORN: It’s pretty damn good. I won’t deny that."
Soo…I'm having a hard time seeing any lack of Mark's reactions to the chapter in these "alternate" reviews. Just saying.
"ARAGORN: Son of a motherless bumblebee." —–> this will never not make me laugh…I want to start using this in my daily speech.
FRODO: I don’t think the rainbow meant “unholy homosexual” at this time. — hahaha too funny! No, I daresay it didn't. 🙂 I always find it so interesting how much culture has changed, and there are so many words or references in this book could have completely different connotations in today's world.
"ELROND: We send the Ring to the Fire. The one in Mordor.
[Everyone but SAM and FRODO gasp.]
SAM: I don’t get it.
ARAGORN: ONE SIMPLY CANNOT WALK INTO MORDOR."
😀 😀 😀 xD xD xD
Here's a John Howe illustration of Gwaihir rescuing Gandalf:
<img src="http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h373/AmandaNekesa/LOTR%20-%20Fellowship%20of%20the%20Ring/GwaihirRescuesGandalf.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket">
Gur bayl guvat V unq tbvat sbe zr ba zl svefg ernq guebhtu vf gung V unq frra gur zbivrf naq jnf snzvyvne jvgu n znwbevgl bs gur ersreraprf, bgurejvfr V jbhyq unir orra FB PBASHFRQ!
Lrnu, vg'f n ybg rnfvre gb cvpgher gurfr cynprf va lbhe urnq jura lbh'ir FRRA gurz va gur zbivrf.
Definitely. I'm a fairly visual person, but it still helped to have watched the movies and have a lot of these locations already fleshed-out in my mind. Though, on the other hand, I would have loved to have first read the books, and to imagine it myself before letting the movies completely fill my imagination. Jura V ernq gur obbxf, V svaq vg engure uneq gb vzntvar fbzr bs gurfr cynprf va n jnl gung'f qvssrerag sebz gur zbivrf, juvpu ernyyl qbrf fnl n ybg sbe jung n terng wbo gurl qvq jvgu gurve ybpngvba pubvprf. So beautiful! 🙂
That eagle looks HUGE! Gung jnf bar guvat nobhg gur zbivrf gung gbbx zr ol fhecevfr. V arire vzntvarq nal bs gur Terng Rntyrf orvat fb ovt. V zrna, V gubhtug bs gurz nf orvat ynetre guna na nirentr rntyr, ohg abg yvxr gung.
Bs pbhefr gur Rntyrf unq gb or n ybg ovttre! Vg'f n fvzcyr dhrfgvba bs jrvtug engvbf! N fvk xvybtenz oveq pbhyq abg pneel na 80+ xvybtenz pbpbahg… ree, jvmneq. :p
Sorry, couldn't resist. 😉
Vg'f fbzrguvat gung V'q anghenyyl vzntvarq jura V ernq gur obbxf, fvapr V'q frra gur zbivr svefg. Qbrfa'g Gbyxvra vaqvpngr gur terng rntyrf ner znffvir, rvgure va Gur Uboovg, be va YbgE fbzrjurer? Here's another great one, this one's by Ted Nasmith:
<img src="http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h373/AmandaNekesa/LOTR%20-%20Fellowship%20of%20the%20Ring/TN-Gandalf_Escapes_Upon_Gwaihir.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket">
<img src=http://www.tednasmith.com/hobbit/TN-Bilbo_and_the_Eagles.jpg>
Bilbo (and Gandalf) and the Eagles – Ted Nasmith
So beautiful!!
Nyfb, (naq ntnva, vg'f orra njuvyr fvapr V'ir qbar frevbhf erfrnepu, fb V pbhyq or pbzcyrgryl jebat) ohg V oryvrir gung Xunmnq-qûz fcrpvsvpnyyl ersref gb gur pvgl vgfrys, juvyr Zbevn (juvpu vf gur Ryivfu anzr tvira gb vg nsgre Qheva sryy) vf gur jubyr fur-onat: gur pvgl, zvarf, nyy bs vg.
Hilarious play review! I kind of love how even the elves can't make a meeting stay on topic or wrap up quickly.
FNZ: Gurer’f n frn? Jurer gur uryy vf gurer n frn?
V ernq guvf naq fdhrnxrq nybhq. Bu, FNZ. Lbh ner fb abg cercnerq. V nz cercnerq ol ybat snzvyvnevgl, ohg gur Terl Uniraf fprar va gur svyz fgvyy znxrf zr pel zber bsgra guna abg.
I've been looking forward to this review. This is my second-favorite chapter of the series (the first being The Shadow Of The Past), the sweeping scope of the history, the language spilling off the page into implications of a much, much larger world.
Just so you know, it's quite hard to read your reviews AND the comments at work without laughing out loud. Good thing there are not too many people today. 😀
GANDALF: Well, his robe was not white, but woven of many colours.
FRODO: I don’t get it.
SAM: Is that a metaphor for saying he’s gay?
Oh my god. Nearly died laughing. Actually, just… the whole thing. I LOVE THESE PLAYS.
BOROMIR: It took me one hundred ten days to arrive here, all by myself, to seek your advice, Elrond, about this war with the Enemy. I have been guided by a poem I learned in a dream, which is totally a reliable piece of information all of the time.
Mark.
Mark.
You've broken me. I can't.
Lbh tbg gb evqr n tvnag rntyr? Gung’f abg snve!
Heh.
SO MANY COMMENTS.
1. I don't know why you had Sam so worried about Merry and Pippin. Like Sam, neither was Merry nor Pippin were invited to the council. Sam was stupid and hid in the bushes and listened to all this. Merry and Pippin are intelligent little hobbits who are off eating (which these poor hobbits/humans/elves/dwarves haven't had a chance to do yet) and in general enjoying being safe and comfortable in Rivendell.
2. Weregild bothered me too… actually looked it up.
3. The other wizards are in blue. So I guess that's a bit more colorful then brown/grey/white… although you do have Saruman the multi-colored or whatever now so… that… doesn't really help. I loved this back and forth:
"I liked white better,” I said. ‘“White!” he sneered. “It serves as a beginning. White cloth may be dyed. The white page can be overwritten; and the white light can be broken.” ‘“In which case it is no longer white,” said I. “And he that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.”
ALSO lol… I didn't EVER think about that until moments before reading that. Saruman is gay. Explains so much.
4. Movie spoiler.V ybir juvyr gur zbivr qvq fhpu n tbbq wbo phggvat guvf qbja naq znxvat vg ragregnvavat sbe hf gb fvg naq jngpu gurl qvq xrrc n tbbq ovg bs gur qvnybthr. Fbzr bs gubfr shaal yvarf lbh bsgra guvax jrer chg va gurer ol gur fperracynl nqncgbef ohg gura lbh ernq gurz va gur obbx naq lbh'er whfg vzcerffrq jvgu ubj njrfbzr Gbyxvra jnf.
5. DID I MISS READING THE "One does not simply walk into Mordor" line? How?? Or is this just a movie line in this scene? Juvpu jbhyq xvaq bs artngr zl ynfg fragvzrag. yby.
Never prepared.
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