In the thirty-eighth chapter of The Amber Spyglass, Will, Lyra, and Mary set out on the final journey. Intrigued? Then it’s time for Mark to finish The Amber Spyglass.
CHAPTER THIRTY-EIGHT: THE BOTANIC GARDEN
I don’t think I ever expected the reunion between Lyra and the gyptians to be fraught with so much sorrow, but that’s what we’re dealt. I was happy to see John Faa and Farder Coram one last time in this trilogy, and I was reminded of how important they were to everything in The Golden Compass, and thought about how that seemed to happen so long ago. I’ve spent so much time on this trilogy that I barely can recall the experience of reading The Book Thief, and that’s because of how immersive His Dark Materials is. And I love that there’s this huge meeting of characters who I never thought would even meet each other: Will, and Lyra, and Mary, and all the gyptians, and all the mulefa, and all of them spend one last moment with each other before venturing off on their journey back home. Everything has changed for these characters, and Farder Coram is the first to note this when he sees Lyra again. It’s not just that Lyra has grown up, either:
But she looks so hurt, he thought, she looks so frail and weary. And neither he nor John Faa could miss the way she stayed close to Will, and how the boy with the straight black eyebrows was aware every second of where she was, and made sure he never strayed far from her.
Oh god, is Lyra even going to try and explain what just happened? Or what must happen? I can’t imagine her wanting to relate that story again in any way, but maybe it’ll always be a mystery for Farder Coram. Maybe Lyra will never see him again after this trip. I couldn’t escape the constant sense of finality to this all, from the feast and gift-giving ceremony between people of three different parallel universes, to the presentation of the window opened from the world of the dead. This is what these worlds will be like from now on. There is no eternity in the world of the dead anymore, and it’s because of Will, Lyra, and the Gallivespians that it was even possible. The mulefa even plan to plant a grove around it to maintain as a holy place, a “source of joy,” and this is all a sign of how things have changed for all universes. But this joy is mixed in with the sadness of goodbye, and I was constantly fighting the desire to burst out in tears for nearly the entirety of the final chapter of this series. Of course, I don’t want to see these characters go. I want more adventures. I want them to be happy. I wouldn’t mind reading this for ALL OF ETERNITY or something. But it must come to an end, and these people must return to the worlds that they came from.
Mary’s goodbye to the mulefa, Atal in particular, is the first exercise in me telling myself DON’T FUCKING CRY DON’T FUCKING CRY over and over again. I was most heartbroken when Atal tells Mary, “Don’t forget us.” And it’s this small, tiny, minuscule moment, but it speaks volumes to the way that the mulefa have come to cherish what Mary has done for them, and they know they won’t see her again, and it pains Atal to even think of a day when Mary will not remember her experience here. Mary is insistent that this is impossible, and it’s true. How could you forget something like this? The journey home takes two weeks and I actually likedthat Pullman did not dwell long on what happened for those two weeks at sea as they traveled back to Cittágazze. Instead, he tells us more information on what the effects of the closing of the windows will have, that all worlds will return to their proper “place” next to one another, and I was totally gutted by the idea that Will and Lyra’s world would end up right back next to each other:
…Lyra’s Oxford and Will’s would lie over each other again, like transparent images on two sheets of film being moved closer and closer until they merged–although they would never truly touch.
YEAH, THANKS FOR RUBBING THIS IN MY FACE. Oh my god.
The gyptians have their last meal together in Cittágazze before heading home, and there’s no fanfare. They are simply gone. We are left with the three humans and Serafina on their very last journey. Lyra is going to go into Mary and Will’s world to show them one last thing before she returns to her own, and as Will and Lyra walk ahead of the two women, holding each other’s hand for maybe the last time, Serafina wonders aloud what Mary is going to do. I’m glad that Pullman, through Mary, acknowledges that it it’s not going to be easy for Mary to take Will with her, as there will be a billion questions asked, and there are still those men who were looking for him. (Sidenote: They’re never addressed again. Is it safe to assume they ware operatives of some organization–maybe even the church–that was looking to gain access to the other worlds?) While Mary is gracious and kind of enough to offer up every type of help imaginable, promising to help Will out through everything, I was really struck by her final line of reasoning:
“He’ll be the only person in my whole world that I can talk to about this.”
And it’s one of those things I hadn’t even thought about. Aside from Jon Parry, his son, and Mary, who else from that world was even aware of the fight against the Authority, or the existence of many-worlds? It’s not like being in Lyra’s world, where they can all openly talk about such things without looking like fools. It’s one of those things that you take for granted, being able to have people in your life to talk about your experiences, and soon, Mary and Will will only have each other to talk to regarding all of this. I genuinely have almost no complaints or nitpicks about the conclusion of this series, but I must say that the entire section with Serafina teaching Mary to see her dæmon, while touching and conceptually poetic, did feel like it was tacked on to the end here. And I think that’s mostly because it seems to take a couple minutes for her to do it, to reach that same level of concentration that was needed to use the subtle knife or the alethiometer, when Will and Lyra took a long time to get there. Maybe it’s because Mary is an adult, or because of her experience in the mulefa world, that she is able to do it quicker than usual, but it felt weird. STILL. Mary gets to see her dæmon omg omg omg I WANT TO SEE MINE. From here, Mary takes Lyra to the specific place she is looking for: The Botanic Garden. As they head through this world’s Oxford to this garden, I wondered whyLyra would want to go here, and why she would choose this as her last thing to do before returning to her world. And then it’s answered and then everything is too much for me to handle:
“I hoped so much, and here it is, just the same…Will, I used to come here in my Oxford and sit on this exact same bench whenever I wanted to be alone, just me and Pan. What I thought was that if you–maybe just once a year–if we could come here at the same time, just for an hour or something, then we could pretend we were close again–because we would be close, if you sat here and I sat just here in my world–“
oh. oh. Oh, no, I don’t cry ever. No. Nope.
“And if we–later on–” she was whispering shakily, “if we meet someone that we like, and if we marry them, then we must be good to them, and not make comparisons all the time and wish we were married to each other instead…But just keep up this coming here once a year, just for an hour, just to be together…”
Yeah, devastated. In a way worse than Lee Scoresby’s death, worse than Pantalaimon being left on that shore, worse than Lyra’s parents perishing in redemption, worse than the reveal that Will and Lyra must be apart….worse than it all. It’s real. There are no loopholes. Will and Lyra must separate. They must help build the Republic of Heaven in their own worlds, they must seal all the windows, and they will never see one another again. There’s definitely a tree in my eye. The goodbye between these two characters, who I’ve grown to love so much, is unendurable, an exercise in torturing my heart, and even up until the very last image of Lyra, I wanted so desperately for there to be an exception, or a mistake, or a twist, or anything to stop this from happening.
One last kiss, rushed and clumsy so that they banged cheekbones, and a tear from her eye was transferred to his face; their two dæmons kissed farewell, and Pantalaimon flowed over the threshold and up into Lyra’s arms; and then Will began to close the window, and then it was done, the way was closed, Lyra was gone.
I got nothing that I wanted. And I imagine this wasn’t easy for Pullman to write, but it has to happen, and as painful as it is, I don’t feel betrayed by Pullman for having this happen. If anything, I feel that he has the utmost respect for me as a reader, that he trusts I will follow him along, no matter how much I protest, and that I’ll give him the same trust right back to him. Pullman stays in this moment on Will’s side, and I think it’s a fantastic choice, and we feel the rawness of the choice, of the closing of the window, and we suffer with Will as he can’t find the concentration to wrench the knife in a way to break it so that no Specter is ever created again. Unlike the first time he broke the subtle knife, it’s the thought of Lyra and the love he has for her that allows him to shatter the knife in to pieces on the ground. All that’s left is Will and Mary, and there’s a huge part of me that would love an entire book that’s just of the two of them trying to figure out how to live after such a traumatic and empowering journey, of going to see Will’s mother, of finding Will housing, of Mary and Will enjoying each other’s respect over a cup of tea. And this idea stems from the fact that Mary made a promise to Lyra, to Serafina, and now to Will: if he will, she will be his friend for the rest of their lives. It takes Will a second to realize what this means, the idea that he has a real friend, and it’s a wonderful contrast to the opening of The Subtle Knife, when we were introduced to the solitary, lonely Will. He now has a friend.
And so the story of Will and Mary comes to a close. Pullman moves on to the one character who has held this all together, to Lyra Belacqua, the girl who saved every universe by making the correct choice to come home to her world and leave behind the one she loved. As the trilogy began, so it ends at Jordan College. I’m happy that Pullman does not ignore how bizarre this is, that after traveling through multiple universes, it’s just strangefor Lyra to be back at Jordan College. We learn of the rise and fall of the Church in Lyra’s world, all of which happened while she was away, and how Jordan College was just now settling back to its routine of scholarship. Here, at the college, Lyra meets yet again with the Master and Dame Hannah, who are eager to know what has happened to Lyra since she disappeared. In the process, though, Pullman sneaks in one of the most important themes of the entire trilogy. Lyra asks only one thing of the Master and Dame Hannah:
“You have to promise to believe me,” Lyra said seriously. “I know I haven’t always told the truth, and I could only survive in some places by telling lies and making up stories. So I know that’s what I’ve been like, and I know you know it, but my true story’s too important for me to tell if you’re only going to believe half of it. So I promise to tell the truth, if you promise to believe.”
And thus the power of this sort of genuine storytelling is presented to us. And I can’t help but think of my own storytelling from last week, and how true this rings for me, and how the whole thing is rendered innate if one does not even take the chance to believe another person. But it’s got a greater message for the whole book, and it’s a meta-commentary for the trilogy, too. It’s Pullman’s way of saying, “Believe me.” Believe him that he has told this story of the oppressive and suppressive nature of fundamentalist belief, of the opposing sides of religious belief and the quest for knowledge, of the joy experienced by living and how some forms of thought seek to end that. Why even tell the story if it’s all going to be considered a half-truth anyway?
Continuing the theme of personal knowledge and the journey to get there, Pullman gives us Lyra’s future in the most natural way possible. She’s still dejected by the loss of her ability to read the alethiometer, but through the story of Dr. Mary Malone, we’ve seen how a person can come to learn a great deal about anything they want if they give themselves up to the prospect of gaining knowledge and wisdom. As the Master of Jordan College speaks openly about Lyra’s place there and her future, it’s clear that Lyra, who feels lost, must pursue a future of knowledge in her own way. He suggests that it only seems logical that Lyra devote her life to the alethiometer, and learning to do what she once did through intuition in another way. (By the way, I adore that he lies to Lyra and says her father left a large sum of money for her.) Dame Hannah gives Lyra that future, offering her a place at a boarding school in North Oxford, to study under a headmistress who sounds pleasantly just like Dr. Mary Malone (and kudos to my friend Jessica, who pointed out to me that it’s entirely possible that it’s a parallel world version of Mary), where she can begin to study the alethiometer.
As much sadness as there is in this ending, there’s also hope. The end of The Amber Spyglass is whittled down to just Lyra and Pan, as the series started, and I’m grateful for this, as I ultimately care for them the most. The two return to the Botanical Garden that night, play a round of hide-and-seek, and discuss their possible future at the boarding school. Lyra asks Pan if she’ll ever tell her what he and Kirjava did after Lyra left him on the shore of the world of the dead, and he agrees to. One day, that is, but not now. Kirjava promised the same thing. And so their thoughts to turn what has happened to them, their journey to inadvertently end the Kingdom of Heaven, and to Will, so far and so close at the exact time. When they discuss the Republic of Heaven, it’s clear that Pullman never once spelled out what this is for a reason. That definition is impossible because it will depend on those left behind, of their desires and hopes, and of their efforts to celebrate the things of this world for the first time as an entire community.
“We shouldn’t live as if it mattered more than this life in this world, because where we are is always the most important place.”
It’s a powerful message, both of urgency and immediacy, of turning our eyes from a reward in Heaven that isn’t there. And obviously not everyone believes this, but it was prevalent in my life growing up. I was taught that our lives were merely the test to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, and what we did here in our incredibly small lives would determine our eternity. Like original sin, or the concept of Jesus’s salvation, it was something I couldn’t find a way to understand. For me, the idea that God would determine our eternity based on an infinitesimally small period of existence was absurd to me. It would be like deciding a child’s fate by judging their actions in the first ten minutes of their life. Why turn our focus to that? Why not assure the world we live in is just and good for the sake of that life itself instead of for an otherworldly reward?
We are all tasked with building the Republic of Heaven here on earth, and it’s a philosophy that ends The Amber Spyglass and fits well into my view of life. Heaven as a term is re-appropriated here to mean something entirely different than its traditional definition. The Republic of Heaven exists in what you and I choose to do with our every waking moment in life. Do we choose to fight for those who are marginalized and left behind? Do we choose to further the pursuit of knowledge of our own world, whether through science, art, literature, music, or even the most personal and private discoveries? Do we cherish the land we live on? Do we cherish the interactions we have with the fellow humans who thrive alongside us? Do we instill values in our friends, our families, our siblings, our offspring, the strangers we pass on busy streets or in subway tubes or in bustling airports by treating one another not as disparate enemies, but with the knowledge that we are all Dust, all chemicals and particles that swirl into existence and fill the leaves, the trees, the lakes, the streams, the birds in the air and the beasts of the land? Do we stretch out our arms to accept the ferocious and unending beauty that does exist in the experience of being alive? Do we learn to embrace the desires, the loves, the emotions, and the sometimes fickle forces that bring our bodies joy and completeness and give us glimpses of something larger than ourselves but never better than the worth of a single life? Or do we turn our eyes to a world in the sky and simply hope that one day, things will be better than they are now?
I bid goodbye to the world of Lyra and Jordan College and dæmons and witches and mulefa and Will and Mary and the gyptians and I accept that it’s time the Republic of Heaven came to earth. And I type that with tears in my eyes, much like when I ended the Harry Potter series, but these are not tears of grief or loss. I have felt something in my heart that is rare and burning and loving for these characters, for this message, for this world, and I am merely in awe that I have had the honor of experiencing all of this. I want to avoid the usual end that I give to these series-ending reviews because I almost feel silly at this point doing such a thing. The profound respect and joy I feel within me for Philip Pullman almost hurts because I have found a soul in the world who knows how I feel without ever having lived a second of my life. That doesn’t happen with me, and the more I think about His Dark Materials, the more prepared I am to state that this is the best series of books I have ever read, and the more I wish that they could never end. But these things do end, and that’s why I know that I have to bring the world of these three books here to where we live, in this time we exist.
If I will take anything from this trilogy (and I do take a lot of things away from it), I will end this final His Dark Materials review with this: There is no experience quite like being alive, and I will continue to do what I can as one person to assure that everyone I meet can find the joy in this very fact. I hope you find the Republic of Heaven here on Earth.
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A bit of an update about the near-future of Mark Reads! I have put them aside for too long, so for the next week or so, I am going to finish off Mark Re-Reads Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone. BECAUSE WHY NOT. Right? RIGHT? Additionally, I’ll squeeze in that review of A Clash of Kings as well because we have a very many things we need to talk about.
As I promised, before I start The Hobbit / Lord of the Rings, I want to do what I did last time I finished a long series and do a single, one-off book that is not part of series. We will start that book on September 19, after I complete the Harry Potter reviews, and here’s all I will tell you: It’s by an author who wrote something for a show I watched on Mark Watches.
Finally, despite finishing His Dark Materials, I will do a single post for each companion book (Lyra’s Oxford and Once Upon a Time in the North) and will be composing pieces on all three books, as well as Philip Pullman’s newest book, The Good Man Jesus and the Scoundrel Christ, over on BridgeToTheStars.net, starting on Friday, September 16th. The easiest way to find out when I post these is to follow me on Twitter: @MarkDoesStuff
Thank you all for coming along with me on this journey, and for discussing religion for over three months straight and NOT bringing on the second coming. I would call that a miracle, but I know that all of you worked hard to be respectful, insightful, and wonderful, so the onus is on you. There are no miracles here. Thank you.
You're going to read Stardust, aren't you? If I'm right, do I get a cookie? 😀
Lyra gets all the hugs from me. In part, they're because she could use the cheering up. But they're mostly because I am SO PROUD of the wonderful young woman she has become. We met her when she was mostly a brat. Now she's grown up, learned to love with her whole heart, learned the value of telling true stories, and learned that everyone has something to teach you–even the ones you might have dismissed earlier as boring.
And I came to the end of this reading seeing this trilogy through entirely new eyes again. The first time, I read as a child, so it was just a thrilling fantasy. The second time, I read the books with a broken heart, so I saw my broken heart reflected back at me. This time, I read to soak in each beautiful detail, so I finally feel like I understand what these books have to offer about the journey from innocence to experience and the fight between obedience and knowledge. It was a reading full of hope. What will the books offer me the next time I read them?
There will be emotional ramblings from me shortly, but before that, and before this gets lost amongst the rest of the posts, there are a few things I’d like to direct people to:
The Lantern Slides
In 2007, a new edition of HDM was published containing some extra postscript notes written by Philip Pullman, called the ‘Lantern Slides’. Each one was just a small amount of text, aiming to fill in small blanks in the story, and in a few cases mentioning Will, Mary and Lyra in the future. Someone kindly typed these up, and I’ve had this link bookmarked for a while:
http://www.hisdarkmaterials.org/cittagazze/viewto…
Quite a few of these are interesting, but one in particular is wonderful as far as I’m concerned. It’s the very last one, slide 9 from The Amber Spyglass:
How utterly wonderful are those last two sentences? The sun coming out indeed 🙂
There were also some additional notes and letters included in some other versions, but I’m afraid I don’t have these to hand. There are a few at http://bridgetothestars.net/misc_gallery/Extras/ however.
Further His Dark Materials Books
Since TAS, Philip Pullman has published 2 further books set in the HDM world(s):
Lyra’s Oxford (2003): a very short story (around 50 pages) called ‘Lyra and the Birds’ set 2 years after TAS.
Once Upon a Time in the North (2008): a slightly longer story (apparently the better of the two) concerning the first meeting of a younger Lee Scoresby and Iorek Byrnison.
I haven’t read either yet myself, but have been patiently waiting until I’d re-read the whole series before starting on them. Both come with a multitude of extras (maps, letters etc) that all seem to contain little clues, possibly hinting at other stories to come. OUATITN includes letters about, and a submission form for, a history masters degree by a certain “Lyra Silvertongue”. Lots of these extras can be seen, again, at the BTTS gallery: http://bridgetothestars.net/misc_gallery/Extras/.
Pullman has also said, “There still remains a green book. And that will be Will's book. Eventually…”
Finally, he’s also been working on a companion book called ‘The Book of Dust’ since 2004, which may be approaching such a size as to be split into two parts. This was mentioned earlier this year to BTTS, so it’s definitely something he’s still working on: http://www.bridgetothestars.net/news/the-book-of-…. I’ve seen conflicting things about what exactly this will be, possibly a collection of short stories, possibly a more focused story on Lyra again. Either way, it’s good news.
The Bench
Some may not be aware that the bench and the Botanic Garden in Oxford are both very much real, and incredibly beautiful (though I haven’t been lucky enough to go there myself). There are a few pictures within the gallery at BTTS http://bridgetothestars.net/misc_gallery/Places/, a couple within the Wikipedia article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_Botanic_Garde… (including a “Lyra + Will” carving in the bench), and many many more out there; Google image search something like “His Dark Materials Botanic Garden” for example. I believe there’s also a virtual tour out there somewhere, but for the life of me I can’t find it right now.
Companion books
There are many of these out there written by other authors. If you’re a nerd like me, and you’re looking for an encyclopedia of HDM, then I heartily recommend ‘The Definite Guide to Philip Pullman’s His Dark Materials’ by Laurie Frost. It’s quite big, over 500 pages, and not something to sit down and read cover-to-cover, but it is a useful well of knowledge and fact (there are maps of Will and Lyra’s travels in his Oxford, for example). Philip Pullman even writes in the foreword that he’s using this himself during the writing of ‘The Book of Dust’ to help him with continuity.
BTTS
Last, but by no means least. I found Mark Reads when I somewhat randomly rediscovered BTTS six years after I’d joined, and the read-through here was well underway. Mark will obviously move on to other things, but for those who wish to still discuss, speculate, argue, or add to the many suggested ‘loopholes’, come join us over at http://www.bridgetothestars.net/forum/!
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Off to read the review…
The bench!
I will need to go there… and probably cry!
Thanks for this post, looks all really worth checking out 🙂
Gah, the first link to photos of the bench/garden got broken somehow. Here it is: http://bridgetothestars.net/misc_gallery/Places/
Man, that door in the wall makes it look like something out of The Secret Garden. England y u so pretty.
Thank you for posting all this stuff, especially the pictures of the bench. I love so much that someone carved Lyra and Will's names into it and that they (presumably) haven't attempted to "clean off" this "horrible graffiti". Reminds me of the pictures someone posted of the Ianto wall in Cardiff…
Also from Philip Pullman himself, on taking a stroll past the bench in the Botanic Gardens a few years ago:
Urgh… tears forever, siriusly!
Gah. Crying again.
That's just a really beautiful merging of fantasy and reality. Love it.
I think my favorite lantern slide is the one about Will being a doctor and having to make sure he doesn't get the right answer ALL the time.
thank you for this!! <3
"Some may not be aware that the bench and the Botanic Garden in Oxford are both very much real, and incredibly beautiful (though I haven’t been lucky enough to go there myself). ."
I have, but that was before these books were written. Oxford remains one of the loveliest cities I have ever been in. I walked around Magdalene College hugging myself because Tolkien walked there.
Darn, you beat me to the lantern slides! 😉
I didn't post one when we finished TSK because I didn't remember if it was brought up along with all of the daemon information is TAS. It's one of my favorites for silliness:
I can't read the chapter in TSK where Pan is imitating Not Moxie without seeing a dude crawling around on all fours, pestering a cat who's thinking "wtf." It gives me the giggles. 😀 So, yeah, the Lantern Slides are the best!
I beat everyone to it by being a massive nerd, preparing a comment in advance, and sitting around in my lunch hour waiting for todays review to appear :p
I think you'll find a lot of people in this community do something similar. I would write out my comments for The Hunger Games the night before and then set an alarm to make sure I was up in time for when Mark first posted a new review. Just take a look back through all the comments on MR and MW, it's kind of intense how often the first comments are actually essays.
So basically, welcome to the club!
Welcome to the club! I did that a LOT with Doctor Who and Avatar over on Mark Watches, and will again for Cowboy Bebop, and for Sandman on this site. 😀 And I'm not the only one, either!
I love that bit! I love how the cat is like WTF for a second and then just ignores him.
Such a typical cat reaction! ha ha!
One of my favorite slides for this one may be considered a bit odd; it's the one about how for the rest of his life, the taste of sugared peppermint would remind Will of Balthamos sampling it that night by the fire. It's because it strikes a chord with me; there are certain tastes and smells that carry memories for me, that can instantly transport me back in time, to another place. I'd wager it's the same for everyone, and it, to me, goes along with the theme in the books that physical bodies and sensations are great and wonderful.
Sounds too. There are a few songs and albums that suddenly remind me of years ago, maybe doing something completely unrelated; perhaps an album I had on repeat while doing a project a uni.
Sometimes when I'm at work, I'll catch a certain smell and just for a second be reminded of my first week in the job, nervous and unsure about everything. It's only for a brief second, and then it's gone. So I can totally appreciate not only the way Will's memory works, but also why this is such a good slide to relate to.
Yes! There are songs that do that for me too. It's like that great line of Dumbledore's from the first book: "Music, a magic beyond all we do here". (Seems appropriate to link these two series on this site, eh?) I think our senses, all of them, are so important to us, and they play a role in shaping and holding our memories; and so that slide seems so perfectly in tune with everything the books say about physical bodies being so important and the best thing.
Yes! Sounds! Certain songs trigger memories for me with such clarity that it is a bit unnerving sometimes.
This is really neat, chrisjpardo. Thanks a lot. Especially for The Lantern Slides which I had somehow never heard of before.
The best one is definitely the eighth slide of the Northern Lights. Not only do we find out what actually happened, but it's brilliant. Also shows how Lyra is very good at bending the truth to suit different circumstances
Thanks for all of these. Have to go check them out immediately!
My love for TAS #9 is because I'm an absolute sucker for sentiment. I think I actually worried that as Lyra and Will were just about to enter their teens, probably the time when things change most for people, that their feelings may begin to fade; maybe they would move on, or find other distractions in life. Perhaps, as some think, they would realise their love wasn't 'full' in some way.
So the fact that years later, as an adult rather than a child, Lyra still thinks of Will and is still going to the Botanic Garden at midsummer day every year, fills my heart with joy 🙂
"In Lyra's world, Dæmon; in the world of the mulefa, the oil-bearing wheels – both ways of making the workings of Dust apparent. In our world, what?"
Do we honestly have nothing? That's a very depressing thought, but I can't think of what it could be if we do have something. Thoughts?
Also only tangentially important. Which editions of the books would I have to get if I wanted to have these Lantern Slides in physical form?
These ones:
<img src="http://www.bridgetothestars.net/coverart/albums/Nothern-Lights-The-Golden-Compass/TGC_Woodcut.jpg">
I know that the versions with these styles of covers http://www.amazon.co.uk/Amber-Spyglass-His-Dark-M… (here in the UK at least) are the Lantern Slides versions from 2008. There were also 10th anniversary editions in 2005 that apparently had some of the extras in, but not the Lantern Slides. The good thing about those 2008 editions (which are still the most recent individual editions I think) is that they're uniquely different from the previous editions, and so pretty easy to pick out!
I only know all this because I'm currently looking into which hardback set to buy to replace my paperbacks.
The most recent paperbacks look like this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Amber-Spyglass-His-Dark-M… in the UK I think. I imagine these contain the Lantern Slides, but I'm not not sure!
Just a note, those recent paperbacks don't contain the lantern slides text 🙁
If you're American, the omnibus edition has the lantern slides, epigraphs, and tiny illuminations. It's censored like most (all?) US editions, but you can always write the missing passages in. 😉
The music of Mozart.
There is also a version of each book with different extras that are not the lantern slides. In Subtle Knife, there's "the papers of stanislaus grumman", in Amber Spyglass, there's "Mary Malone's field notes", and in the Golden Compass, i cant quite remember… I think it's some papers of Lord Asriel. I came across these in my uni library, much to my delight!
I think those are the 10th anniversary editions, but I'm not sure.
I just want all of the things in once place!
Those are from the tenth anniversary editions, as chrisjpardo said. You can find the papers of Lord Asriel, from the tenth anniversary edition of Northern Lights, here: http://www.bridgetothestars.net/misc_gallery/Extr…
We'll be trying to get the other ones up soon!
Mark, today we all have trees in our eyes with you.
And I just want to thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for giving me the experience of properly reading these books.
This was my 3rd or 4th time reading the trilogy and all through TSK, I wondered why I couldn't remember anything that was to come afterwards.
It was because before, I just read these books too fast.
Reading the books at your pace has made me appreciate them in a way I wouldn't have thought possible and I take away so much more than I did before.
So again… thank you, thank you, thank you!
And I'll just leave this here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/johannabocher/341967…
That typo had me cracking up. Completely took me out of the moment.
Am I the only one who didn't realize it was a typo? I took it as "normally I'd say I have dust in my eyes but I need something BIGGER to explain this right now". In retrospect that sounds really implausible but it worked for me (if by "worked" you mean "made me choke on my coffee").
Nope, I didn't see it as a typo either, rather in the way you explained…
I still think it's not a typo!
I wondered at the time but I wasn't sure.
I didn’t think it was a typo
It's not a typo! I exaggerated.
Well THANK YOU FOR THE CHOKING FIT
Typo or not it is awesome.
Mark's typos are the best.
There’s definitely a tree in my eye.
Can we get this on a t-shirt?
brb sobbing forever
I can't even handle the end of this series.
Oh god it's all over!! :'(
"There’s definitely a tree in my eye."
Erm, might want to get that seen to Mark!
Seriously, thank you for doing this series, it was always one of my favourite series growing up and when I first came across you when you were still on Harry Potter, I knew HDM would be perfect!
Yay for more Harry Potter!!!!
I'm really excited for The Hobbit/LotR. I tried reading the first LotR many years ago (before the movies) and was so overwhelmed I didn't get very far. I'm looking forward to reading it with you, Mark, and the rest of your followers!
I just want to say thanks to you for starting this phenomenon. This is like the best book club I've ever belonged to 🙂
There’s definitely a tree in my eye.
I like it, Mark. I like it. No tears in your eyes, just trees.
<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Lyra%2BWill.jpg">
I'm always a mess reading/listening to this chapter. It hurts my heart to think of Lyra and Will separating, not as lovers but as BFFs.
So who here has tried to see their daemon in the way Serafina Pekkala teaches Mary?
<img src="http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n55/byologyrl/raiseyourhand.gif">
Just me? Okay. I try to do it every once in a while over the past decade but I never see anything. Why is my life so tragic? :'(
I think TAS is a bit heavy-handed and preachy which is why it's my least favorite, but it's still my favorite trilogy, ever.
I'm definitely with you on trying to see my daemon.
Alas, to no avail… so far!
So who here has tried to see their daemon in the way Serafina Pekkala teaches Mary?
So I definitely have one of those "Magic Eye" books Pullman talks about when Mary is learning to see her daemon. After I finished this book the first time, I dug it out so I could practice seeing my daemon. It didn't work, though 🙁
Every time I finish this book, I look through the corner of my eye on the off-chance that some creature is sneaking in the background, laughing at me. Still hasn't happened, still hope it might, haha!
I think our daemons just like to hide from us. They must know that we are trying.
Speaking of seeing one's daemon, I thought it would be fun for people to post what they thought their daemon would be.
There's a good page here: http://daemonpage.com/ with helpful information, and their 'quick analysis' is a good start.
I'm pretty sure mine is a Harris Hawk:
<img src="http://content.ornith.cornell.edu/UEWebApp/images/pub_harris_hawk_350.jpg">
You know what's weird?
I was on a hike the other day and thought my deamon could well be an alpine chough.
I had completely forgotten that Mary's daemon is also one…
One seemed to take a liking to me… my Mum even took a picture of the two of us.
I know it's silly, but oh well… http://i54.tinypic.com/286tutc.jpg
I took the quiz linked from that page and one of my possible daemons is a panda.
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/angelsgirl114/Mark%20Verbs/rolypolypandap1.gif">
Hahahahaha.
I thought it would be a Barn Swallow but that doesn't really describe my personality. Another suggestion was Domestic Cat which is pretty close (I do love sleeping!). I kind of wish it was a Velociraptor.
Or, you know, my iPhone 😉
I took one of those quizzes and I got "Rhinoceros". What can I say, I'm not a people person.
I do love rhinos, though.
That test is wonderful. The detailed description at the end is amazingly accurate. I got that I have a Multi-faceted soul. My main options were a Swan, Elephant, Koala, Panda, Chameleon, Wolf. Of those, I would tend to lead to the Chameleon, not because I like to blend into the background, but because I'm good at adapting myself into what's right for different situations.
Dude, a chameleon daemon would be like Pascal from Tangled! Awesome.
It tagged me as a solitary trickster, with Coyote, Fox, Raccoon.
I think I'd have a raccoon daemon… not sure why, just feels right. The analysis is pretty good! Better than the last Daemon test I did, that's for sure. Much more me.
That quiz suggested a rabbit or dormouse for me…
Dormouse!
<img src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4NDrtxITj00/TWB_FKt_BKI/AAAAAAAAA6w/voWtKJwVZck/s1600/dormouses.jpg">
CUTE!
Looking at that I would say that I am a coyote. That matches another quiz that says I'm a jokester.
<img src="http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/IMAGES/South_Dakota/coyote_eastern_380.jpg">
Though I do have things in common with the Pegasus too (Which would be totally awsome btw).
Some of the descriptors sounded more like horoscopes though.
When I first finished this book I had a mental image of everyone who read it glancing around furtively any going cross-eyed in an attempt to see their daemon. I certainly tried it.
"It hurts my heart to think of Lyra and Will separating, not as lovers but as BFFs."
Me too, me too.
TAS is also my least favourite, but the Will and Lyra separation, losing their best friends and never knowing "what might have been", and the bench thing… that is just utterly beautiful.
I'm guessing the one-off author is Neil Gaiman. Maybe Stardust, given how brief it is.
That's exactly what I was thinking! I LOVE NEIL GAIMAN, this is gonna be awesome.
But but but
I want it to be Good Omens 🙂
Well, that is on his new list.
I really like that Pullman shows us Lyra has changed by showing her impression of everyone back at Jordan College who has changed. Instead of seeing mean or frumpy people, she recognizes the kindness and wisdom and is ready to embrace it. She's not quite as stubbornly independent as she was at the beginning of the series, having learned the importance of relying on others sometimes.
Lyra really has changed since Northern Lights. I've noticed this before but one of the most superficial changes she goes through is how she talks; no more stubborn 'en'ts' or swearing or slang. Another sign of how much she's grown.
I especially liked how her impression of Dame Hannah in particular had changed. I think that she probably gained respect for female scholars after meeting Mary Malone and now she is well on her way to becoming one. Neat!
I'm trapped in a glass cage of emotion!
Seriously, though, this book and the series as a whole moves me so profoundly that I don't really have any comments. Just…I'm so glad I got to reread it with you, Mark, and I'm so glad you loved it!
Magic Eyes really never worked for me, so I may never see my daemon, gods that's heartwrenching 🙁
Oh god, I can't do magic eyes either! 🙁
same here! 🙁 I knew I should have spent more time in elementary school practicing
I can do them, but they're reversed. Everything that's supposed to "stick out" is "dented in" instead.
Wait, is that not what's supposed to happen? I always see it dented in, but I though that was normal.
maybe that's how you see your death!
Are they as popular with kids now as they were when the books came out? Or do kids read that part and think "WTF is this guy talking about?"
I haven't seen them in the papers for ages honestly.
I was actually tested in school and told that my eyes and brain are such that I am physically incapable of seeing Magic Eyes stuff.
Which means I will never see my daemon.
Thanks, Mark.
While I'd read the trilogy before, reading it again this way – through the eyes of someone else, with whom it resonated at different points in different ways – was really a pleasure, and was like reading the whole series anew.
Warning: Massive Therapy Session Below.
Reading the ending of this book was bad news bears for me this week. I actually groaned when picking it up to finish the last few chapters, not sure how I was going to make it through. Just total bad timing.
Last week, my dog Gracie died unexpectedly in my arms from a ruptured spleen caused by a tumor (I think one of Mark’s Tumblr peeps had a similar situation and from what I understand, this is becoming a strange epidemic – GET YOUR DOG CHECKED OUT – it can happen so quickly). A few days later, my grandmother was placed in the hospital and turned old overnight. This week, the day the guy I was seeing told me that he thought we should take a break, I also found out that my mom’s skin cancer is back and they will be digging through her body again to fetch it out. (Cont'd)
And suddenly, I looked at my family and realized that soon, I will be dealing with them getting old and having to take care of them. Like Will, it’s something I’m happy to do. I love them more than anything, but the thought of doing it alone…
Yesterday, someone posted that at 32, she disliked how society has preconceived notions on women who were not married and without a family to raise. I agree wholeheartedly. At 31, I’ve never been married, never even close. When I tell people in my small, Southern town this, I’m always greeted with that look of pity. I want to scream that I AM NOT DEFINED BY THIS. However…
I know I CAN take care of my parents alone. I know I will be able to help them in their final days. I just wish I didn’t have to.
(Cont'd)
I think I totally blocked the ending of this book from my memory. I read it years ago and completely forgot how it ended. I’m pretty sure I did this on purpose. I WANT them to be together. I don’t care what Pullman was trying to say, what his grand point was…I want them to have that opportunity.
Anyway, I’m sorry for Selfish Sobfest 2011. But honestly, this group has been a place of comfort for the past year now and I haven’t been able to talk about this stuff with anyone besides my journal. So thanks for existing everyone. And thanks again Mark for bringing all these amazing people together. I’m so glad we’re reading something cheerier next. Hobbits, yay!
ASIDE: Why are some folks able to post long comments and some have to break them apart, like me?
*huuuuuuuuuuuuugs*
I think it has to do with browsers? I'm on firefox on a mac and I can post long comments–but I also copy and paste them from text files, I don't type them directly in the comment box. That might work for you?
I thought that might work too…not so much! I'm at work (shhh), so no Mac here. Maybe if I try from home, I could post the whole novel, but as it is, it will have to be broken. Thanks for the advice!
Hugs. That's one hell of an onslaught. I wish your mom and grandmother the best, and I'm so sorry about your dog.
Aww that all really, really sucks. I hope your mom and grandmother will be OK.
I lost one of my grandmothers about a month and a half ago (not too long after I spent a night sobbing over Lee Scoresby's death, GREAT TIMING UNIVERSE) so I know how much it makes you question and worry about the future. Internet hugs to you!
All the hugs. *hugs* I'm so sorry for all that you're going through, and hope both your grandmother and mother will be all right.
I agree that a cheerier book is needed 'round these parts after an ending like this!
Ohhhh I'm so sorry 🙁 pets dying is the absolute worst, and I'm so sorry your family is having hard times as well, that sucks so much. All the internet hugs.
Yeah, shitty times. I'm sure at some point I will be happy I was there with her during her last moments, but the memory of her eyes will always haunt me. I've never had to go through that before, witnessing death first-hand before. It was rough.
Thanks guys, hugs all around.
No words, just endless tears. It doesn't help that I just finished watching Nine regenerate into David Tennant. What a nice start to my day!
Also, yay Harry Potter! LOTR! Mysterious book!
Here are some final random observations while I battle with ID to let me post a ridiculously long emotional rant:
* “Being cheerful starts now” / “Nevertheless, she smiled.” How brave are these kids?! I’m wallowing in pity, and I’m ONLY READING A FICTIONAL STORY.
* I’m happy they at least get 2 weeks together on the boat, it would have been horrible to be parted right away. I’m sure that would seem like little consolation at the time though.
* The bench. I love this, but it breaks my heart at the same time, imagining Will and Lyra sitting so far apart for just that hour every year. I will go and visit it someday if I’m in Oxford. I love that it’s another example of PP using what he knows to construct a fitting location for the end of the story.
* I love that the daemons kiss goodbye.
* I’d have agreed to meet in the world of the dead. At least then they could make sure they drifted apart at the same time and place, and you know, maybe have a quick catch-up before hand.
* One of the poems excerpts at the beginning of the book, “The Ecclesiast” by John Ashbery, really gives a clue to the ending before it even starts:
* “Lyra” is both the first and last word of the whole series.
* If I was them, I’d have lied, kept the knife, and used it every 5 years or so to jump between their two worlds. One spectre every 5 years? I could live with that. Let the angels sort it out. But then not only is this pretty much against the message and tone of the book, this is also why Will and Lyra are plain better than me.
"If I was them, I’d have lied, kept the knife, and used it every 5 years or so to jump between their two worlds. One spectre every 5 years? I could live with that. Let the angels sort it out. But then not only is this pretty much against the message and tone of the book, this is also why Will and Lyra are plain better than me."
Same here! I don't think I would have had the strength to break the knife and never use it again.
That is my favourite poem (exerpt).
The line "We are together at last, though far apart" might just shatter my heart into tiny little pieces again.
I'm adding something to my original post. I'm not quite sure how I managed to miss this bit out:
The whole paragraph with this in is just heartbreaking; the reality of what these young people will have to live with; what they'll always have at the back of their minds. But this is a far more poetic and beautiful way of putting this than I think I could ever have imagined.
I've mentioned before that I went to Oxford in May, and while I loved it there, the one thing I kind of regret is that I could only be there for one day and I didn't have enough time to go to the Botanic Gardens and find the bench. Something to do if I ever make it back, I guess! I really want to go back though, if I had a TARDIS I'd probably have been back already.
I remember when I was reading the series, and afterward, I went looking at all the HDM fansites and reading about the different bits of trivia and pictures and what people thought about their daemons. I remember I thought mine would be a red fox named Crevan and I've never forgotten that.
Anyway, I've really enjoyed reading your reviews and rereading them. It had been a while since I read them and it was really nice to read them with the reactions of someone who had never read them before. : )
Every time I read these books I take away something new. I am always a weeping mess by the end of it, but always hopeful and determined as well. The Republic of Heaven is something I can live by. Reading it with your point of view has changed it all over again, so thank you Mark! (That and you've made me actually start posting here, breaking my lurker habits of a lifetime, so thanks for that as well).
And the next book has to be by Gaimon, right? I am excited already!
Haha yeah. Mark Reads His Dark Materials brought me out of the lurker zone too.
HELLO LURKERS I <3 YOU
Oh man so many tears and the idea of parallel Mary is one that never occurred to me before and it is the best.
Also Mark your daemon is totally a galago or bush baby or whatever you call those big-eyed critters with the fluffy tails that aren't exactly primates but kinda… evoke the feel. Or maybe a raccoon; but bush babies look a little more Markish if you ask me. It's the huge eyes; they just look eternally surprised and full of wonder and I am picturing one just rolling around on Mark's shoulders as he reads and offering bonus color commentary and during the end chapters he just picks it up and cries into it as it makes distressed keening noises into his shoulder because so fucking moving.
Can't say anything more than thank you, Mark. Every time you finish a book or a show I think how much of a pleasure it is to experience it with you. This one in particular, which has had such a profound effect on me and has such a close place in my heart, was a delight to share with you. No tears at the moment, they've been exhausted many years ago (and on previews reviews), but it's sad to see you ending HIs Dark Materials. I can only promise they get better and better with every reread.
I'm very excited in what's coming up next. Hopefully I already have the book I think you're planning on reading. If not, it's never been hard for me to go out and buy another one. Also, I have to finish reading Game of Thrones and Clash of Kings before your review. GRRM, I will not let you beat me with your never-ending pages!
Mark, I love this review with all my heart! But apologies to all; this is going to be huge, and I wouldn't blame you at all for skipping…
I’m a 26 year old man who’s never been in love or had any kind of romantic relationship. I’m also an optimistic, over-emotional, foolish romantic (who usually struggles to admit as much). As such, I have no experience of being of love, or real heartbreak to compare to. I guess this is one of the reasons why I’m not cynical about these things; and I think part of me needs that optimism.
Why the personal rubbish? Because I’ve always thought there must be a reason behind how the last few chapters of The Amber Spyglass affect me. This is my second time through, and I thought it might be dulled this time… But nope; utterly heartbroken. Gutted. I have a dull, nervous aching in my chest. 6 years ago I remember it making me feel awful for about a week afterwards, and I’m fully prepared for this to be the same. I’ve thought long and hard about this why, and I’ve reached a conclusion: I don’t really know and I don’t care. They just do.
So is it better to have loved and lost, and all that? From my limited vantage point, I can’t imagine much being worse than being given an “infinitely precious blessing” that you’d wanted/needed your whole like (even if you didn’t know it) and then having it taken away almost at once. Nope, I’m not taking any solace in that.
I’ve been misty eyed at various points in this series, and tears have run down my face a few times, most recently when Will says his final words to his father and Lee Scoresby drifts up towards the stars. I thought I was doing quite well over these last 2 chapters this time, until I reached this in Chapter 37:
I’m having to read around that quote right now or else it’ll set me off again. And then last night, when I read the final chapter, I was okay until the part when they agree to come back to the bench in the Botanic Garden on Midsummer Day (I think it’s the “as long as I live” bit in particular). Yep, that’ll do it. Not delicate, single rolling tears, but the spluttering sobbing of a 26 year old man lying in bed, just before midnight. Real attractive. And then again when Lyra mentions how they must be good and fair if they fall in love again; and when “each kiss was nearer to the last one of all”; and when Will says he loves her “more than anyone has ever been loved before”; and that “rushed and clumsy” final kiss (this is just perfect, no big Hollywood goodbye here); and Lyra sitting alone in the garden, wondering if she’ll ever go an hour without thinking of him; and…
I agree with your sentiments yesterday Mark; I do believe it’s real love, and I also believe them when they say it’ll last forever. These are no normal children. I understand how easy it is to be cynical about this. I know they’re only young… can anyone at that age make these kinds of statements? All I know is that I trust Pullman’s writing; if he’s telling me that it’s true love that will last despite the gaps in distance and time, then I believe him. That might be hard for some people to just accept, but I’m just the kind of sap that does.
(… more)
(…cont)
Will they ever meet anyone else? I’m not sure, but I think Lyra would be the more likely to. Her amazing ability to love is the real central spine of the books. The Lantern Slides also show that she still thinks about him (and presumable still tells him she loves him) 5 years later. As for Will, I’m not so sure. He’s a bit more self-enclosed than Lyra, and he also has his mother to look after (and love). Most of the ‘memories’ that Pullman refers to in the future are his; maybe he’ll struggle more to move on. Most of all, I’m willing to trust Lyra’s judgment a few chapters back when Will says he can tell his mother that his father was always faithful to her:
All absolute opinion and speculation from me though. I do believe that whoever they do/don’t fall in love with, they’ll both live full, enriched, productive, love-filled, happy lives. And their love will always be there, as part of them.
Philip Pullman seems to take great delight in the last two chapters of dangling hope and loopholes in front of us, even letting the characters experience moments of joy at their thought, before repeatedly smashing these into tiny pieces that can lie on the floor next to the shards of what used to be my heart. I hate you PP (j/k <3).
But to my mind there are a couple of possible reasons for hope for Will and Lyra:
1. The hope that they may be able to move through worlds as John Parry could, and as Mary (I assume) has taken the steps towards already. Parry could do quite a lot with this, so who knows what the limits are. Even if it took 10+ years to learn, surely it would be worth it to at least talk to each other? I know this goes against the message that that the body and the physical world are the most important things, but I see this as a start at least.
2. The alethiometer. Lyra will learn how to read this again over time, and we know that by 18 she’s already starting to pick things up, and by 23 her abilities have surpassed her scholars.
I love these books. It may seem like I’ve spent a long time talking about how upset the end of this book makes me, and in an emotional way I hate it, but I think it’s a beautiful one that just wouldn’t have worked any other way. Would it have been as moving? As memorable? Would it have driven me to find fan sites, forums, and eventually stumble on to here and catch-up to do it all again? I very much doubt it. I love that something can make me feel in this way, even for the second time, 6 years from the first. I don’t ever want to lose that. I think this, taken from the summary of The Amber Spyglass on BTTS, sums it up nicely:
“This is truly a startling conclusion to a wonderful series… one that will have wrenched every emotion out of your heart as it takes you through its pages, at last leaving you in a garden, as night sets in, listening to the bells of Oxford chime in the distance, and a little nightingale singing in the branches overhead.”
Finally, it’s been absolutely fantastic to read this with you all; I don’t think I can emphasize that enough. Thanks especially to Mark; I’m really glad that you loved, and were moved by, these books so much, and thank you for being so open and sharing about your own life with us along the way.
Awww… well, I hope you do get to fall in love someday soon. It really does feel as good as they say it does. It really won't be anything you expect.
I'm not as old, but cosign on the experience, and on being so emotional and sentimental about these books.
YESSSSSS! WE'RE ABOUT TO GET SOME TOLKIEN UP IN THIS MOTHERFUCKER.
Mark, once you finish The Hobbit, you NEEEED to watch the Rankin-Bass cartoon of it.
OMG I secretly love the cartoon version! They used to show it on the Disney Channel (or Cartoon Network…one of those) all the time
lol your excitement kills me. I both loved and feared watching that version in school.
List!
– I am TERRIBLE at those 3-D optical illusion things, so I will never see my daemon 🙁
– Bless the Master of Jordan :’D He’s so sweet! I’m not sure how I feel about him trying to poison Asriel way at the beginning, but I’m glad he’s not the evil old man I thought he was
– WE NEED A PAN AND KIRJAVA NOVELLA NOW
– OMG THE PACT <3 But what happens if they show up and someone is already sitting on the bench? Do they shove that person off and then sit there? Why do I think about these things?
– I really like that Pullman acknowledged the fact that both Will and Mary are wanted by the police. And even though it’s sad that everyone has to go back to their respective world, I like that Pullman didn’t do what Rowling did and make everything perfect and happy.
I’m SUPER SUPER excited about the next few weeks and your future projects! CANNOT WAIT! 😀
OMG THE PACT But what happens if they show up and someone is already sitting on the bench? Do they shove that person off and then sit there? Why do I think about these things?
I thought this too! I can't imagine either of them being too patient :p
You handled the ending better then I did lol.
Hmm…are you going to read The Sandman by Gaiman?
He's said already that he will read Sandman, but it's a series, not a one-off book. The one he's reading next is specifically a one-shot.
That's coming after he finishes The Hobbit and LOTR. This is going to be something else.
(omg so excite so excite)
*is excite with you* *jumps around*
Between the secret book, The Hobbit/LOTR, Sandman, and the possibility of Cowboy Bebop in the near future, I'm pretty much bursting with excite! 😀
Sometimes after I finish a book, the ending stays with me for years. And years and years. Does anyone else want to find that bench in our Universe’s University of Oxford Botanic Garden? I have been intending to do so for years! Has anyone else found it? It’s on my list!
We should all meet at the bench!!
So a part of me wonders what exactly you DO with the pieces of the Subtle Knife after it's broken. You can't exactly toss them in the garbage.
I do like that the first time Lyra met Dame Hannah, she thought she was frumpy and boring, especially next to Mrs. Coulter's charm and beauty. But now she sees her with more adult eyes, and has a lot more respect for her, a female Scholar in a world dominated by men. Lyra really has changed.
I didn't even catch that the headmistress sounds like Mary and could even be a parallel version of her. !!! It reminds me of the moment when Lyra discovers Simon Parslow's initials carved into the exact same place in Will's world as in hers. Even though there are so many differences between the worlds, there might be a few things that sync up in mysterious ways. Maybe Lyra will discover that this woman isn't named Mary, but has her spirit–maybe even her daemon! Wouldn't that be SO AWESOME.
Mark, I strongly urge you to look up the Lantern Slides that Pullman put into one edition of the books. They provide a bit of hope and some new information about the world of the books. (ETA: NEVER MIND I SEE SOMEONE ALREADY POSTED THEM, and they're awesome.)
Your paragraph about the Republic of Heaven nearly brought tears to my eyes. You're such an amazing writer, and you inspire me, not just to be a better writer, but to be a better person. <3.
So a part of me wonders what exactly you DO with the pieces of the Subtle Knife after it's broken. You can't exactly toss them in the garbage.
I would put them in a Shadow Box on my mantel, if I had a mantel.
Maybe Will can take up his father's mantel.
I see what you did there
This is a flawless comment.
Bravo for this.
Thank you, Mark, for this journey. It was amazing to revisit my favorite books with you, and remembering why building the Republic of Heaven has always been such a strong concept in my life. Let's keep creating Dust and telling stories.
CHAPTER THIRTY-EIGHT: THE BOTANIC GARDEN
CHAPTER THIRTY-EIGHT: DOOMSDAY
Anyone interested in my thoughts on the trilogy? There you have them! I was not a big fan of the third book, alas.
Wow, I had no idea you could complain like that. You've been holdin' out on me, man! 😉
I agree with most of what you said about the differences in Pullman's and Rowling's characterization. It's just that I didn't happen to like the characters that Rowling stuck me with, ha,ha,ha. At least Pullman wasn't afraid to switch perspective when it was needed: making characters that I found dull much more tolerable. (MARY.)
I kinda love your thoughts a lot and completely agree with them.
I've been late to all these reviews because I just didn't connect with this book the way I have with the other books I've read here on MR, and I honestly think its the characters. Like you mentioned, I just feel like the characters weren't as fully real as in Harry Potter, for example. Of course, its just MHO, and I could see why others feel differently, but there you have it.
I love this book for its contradictions, juxtapositions and even hypocrisy. Religion is the discussed topic of this work, but within the story we find that there is in fact a Creator ( who is not God) and there are angels( who think they are). It is the “Power Corrupts Absolutely” law that is in full play._Science is no better. Scientists use severing in Lyra’s world for energy, WMDs just seeking knowledge. The Guild keeps cutting holes even when their world is ruined. A DNA directed bomb that is so powerful that it creates an abyss into nothingness. Where is the understanding of “For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction”_The last is this ending. Everything must go back to its PLACE. All living/existing must be done in Place within the confines of the environment, culture, politics. There will be no seeking out new life forms and new civilization, no boldly going anywhere._This is the part I really like. We have to make a life worth living and have stories to tell without outside assistance. We must be excellent to each other and to our place.__“We shouldn’t live as if it mattered more than this life in this world, because where we are is always the most important place_
On another note: SO EXCITE FOR LORD OF THE RINGS.
I haven't read them in aaaaaaaaaaages and this will be a great opportunity!
I try to read them every year and I haven't yet! SO SO SO EXCITE!
Oh mannnnnnnnn.
I kind of wanted to cry at the end of the chapter because I had to say goodbye to Lyra and Pan. I wish there were a hundred more books about their adventures for the rest of their lives. Even though I'd read the books before, I got so much more out of them this time.
But I wanted to cry even more reading the last 3 paragraphs of your review. Just beautiful. I'm glad we all took this journey with you.
PS: Will you give us a tiny bit of warning for the secret book? I get most of my books from the library and I want to make sure I have it to start with you.
I'm the same regarding you P.S.! Though if it's either Good Omens or American Gods, my library has them checked out and that they were due back in July…..
I had a feeling (woooo hoooo) about Good Omens so I put a hold on it yesterday but most copies are checked out here too. There are probably "alternate means" for acquiring the books but I'd like to do it the right way if possible!
I LOL'd at your "woooo hoooo" because I heard it in my head as I read it. Hee hee.
I can't escape it whenever I have a feeling about anything! And I kind of hate that song. I should've gone with "I've got a theory." N qnapvat qnrzba? Ab, fbzrguvat vfa'g evtug gurer.
Vg pbhyq or ohaavrf!
V'z pheeragyl cynlvat n ohaal (jryy, npghnyyl n uner, ohg frznagvpf) va n cynl evtug abj, naq V rng pneebgf guebhtubhg. Nf n erfhyg, crbcyr xrrc pbzzragvat ba gur snpg gung zl rlrfvtug zhfg or vzcebivat (naq vg unf, gubhtu whfg zl avtug ivfvba). Nyzbfg rirel gvzr gurl qb gur yvar, "Naq jung'f jvgu nyy gur pneebgf, jung qb gurl arrq tbbq rlrfvtug sbe naljnl…." cbcf vagb zl urnq, naq V unir gb xrrc zlfrys sebz ohfgvat hc ynhtuvat.
Be znlor zvqtrgf.
GURL TBG GUR ZHFGNEQ BHG!
I agree about the warning! I have a copy of Good Omens, but not American Gods. Also, I've discovered that although I have THREE copies of The Lord of the Rings (some cool vintage paperbacks I picked up at a book sale for 25 cents each, an all-in-one hardcover, and an all-in-one British paperback with an image from the movies on the cover), I HAVE NO HOBBIT. How did this happen?
Until recently I didn't own The Hobbit, but had 2 copies of LotR (one a paperback set I bought in Oxford, and the other a set of hardbacks with illustrations by Alan Lee that I got for Christmas) because I lent my copy to a friend at leas 5 years ago, and she hasn't returned it!
Considering how beautiful the artwork is, you probably are better off letting her keep the paperbacks and holding onto the hardcovers yourself!
I, thankfully, am fully prepared for the mystery book, unless it's something out of the blue like Coraline. I think that's the only one I don't own of Gaiman's.
I AM NOT PREPARED for the surprise book. I have never read any Gaiman before (if indeed all the hints are correct) and I am super excite for the opportunity…if only I knew which one!!!
On the other hand, I am totes prepared for LotR. Annotated Hobbit AND ALL.
The only book of Gaiman's that I have is American Gods. And now I'm kicking myself, because I went to Border's going away sale on my birthday, and I SAW Good Omens and Stardust there, and I thought about getting GO, but I DIDN'T, and if that turns out to be the book, I'm going to pout or something.
The only thing I remember from reading these books was the ending. (Well that and armored bears, but come on!) I remember being excited to read them and then HATING the way it ended.
Upon reading your reviews of the series, I think I wasn't really ready to read the books yet. I am certain that a lot of it went over my head. I think I wasn't ready for the questions that this series asks. I think part of it is that I read them before I had thought to question religious authority so I couldn't really grasp the spirit of the books.
So if there is possibly an alternate Mary, then could there possibly be alternate Will and alternate Lyra? I mean… not the same but… I dunno… a girl can hope!
(I do love that the series does not have a perfect ending. That doesn’t stop my heart from aching for them and wanting them to be able to have each other. )
I actually don't like the idea of there being parallel versions of those characters. It's just too confusing considering they had such a huge part to play in the fate of all worlds. How could there be a version of Lyra that didn't save the universes? I think it's just much easier to assume that while there could be a crapton of parallel everyone else, the characters in these books are completely unique.
Soooo…. why exactly can't you cry if you read something sad?
Dammit, I suck at Magic Eye pictures. I will never be able to see my daemon.
Or do we turn our eyes to a world in the sky and simply hope that one day, things will be better than they are now?
Who are we, Pope Innocent III? James G. Watt? Yeah, I love the end message of these books. We should concern ourselves with our world, not the possibility of an idyllic hereafter, and make it as good as possible, both for us and future generations. It's perhaps a little unrealistic how quickly everything changes in Lyra's absence, but I still love how everything has changed for the better now that the Church is too concerned with its own affairs to meddle with the rest of the world. So, even though the book ends on a sad note for Will and Lyra, I still feel hopeful that their worlds will improve for the better. By the way, I enormously prefer this chapter to the last one, even though, or maybe especially because, I feel more heartbroken for these kids.
Mark, thanks for doing HDM. I liked it, but I never revisited it after I finished, partly because TAS isn't my favorite of the series. I enjoyed reading them even more this time, and I feel like I got so much more out of them from the chapter-a-day breakdown and being able to read other people's views. Thanks for doing another great series!
PS, is anyone having trouble getting upvotes to show up? They keep disappearing when I hit expand.
Didn't cry here either. Nope. Not at Mary and Atal's goodbye (really, just had an eyelash stuck in my eye), or Will and Lyra's, or Lyra talking about them sitting on the bench together. Not a bit.
Sigh. Lying again.
Bittersweet is the word I would choose for this ending; beautiful, and bittersweet. For it's bitter indeed that Will and Lyra have had to say goodbye, and I think the fact that their time together ended so soon will always fix it in their minds as they go on with their lives. It may seem overdramatic for some, but for me, I see it like this: for them it is so real, it is one of the worst things they have ever had to go through. It feels like the end of the world for them, and so it is seeing them in such pain that makes a lump form in my throat and tears build in my eyes. Because I've come to love both of them dearly, and don't want to see them in pain. Seeing them have to say goodbye, to be pretending to be cheerful and smiling even though they feel so ripped apart inside – I think they are stronger than I am, than I could be in such a situation. They have my respect.
At the same time, though, there is a sense of hope, of wonder, of sweetness. The worlds have been saved; Will has a friend in Mary and vice versa; the Church in Lyra's world is faltering; Lyra will attend that school, and make new friends, and study the alethiometer; life will go on. It will be hard for these two children at first, missing each other so much, and burdened with a story they can relate to few others. Will and Mary can only talk about it to each other, and I love the idea of them living together and getting to know each other, sharing that secret of all they've seen and experienced. Lyra can more easily tell her story to the Master of Jordan College and Dame Hannah, but I doubt she can tell friends her age, whether old or new, the story so easily, for it has been so painful for her; and how can any of them who didn't live it truly understand? I don't blame her for valuing silence and discretion, as Will showed her, so much to not want anyone to find out about her and Pan being able to go great distances from one another. That one passage shows just how much Lyra has grown. I feel I understand exactly why she would want to keep that a secret, to not talk about how it happened; it makes a lot of sense to me.
Life will go on; yes. I mean that in the best possible sense. For while it will indeed be hard on these people as they re-adjust to normal life, they will yet find new joys in that life. Friendship; love of all kinds; myriad experiences both everyday and extraordinary await them. What they've done, Lyra and Will, is to ensure that they have those lives ahead of them, they've given life and time to themselves and so many others. And I agree that living it fully in whatever way they choose is more important than passing some test to get into "heaven". I agree with all that you said, Mark, and I'm moved by the beauty of it. People so often characterize athiests as joyless people who see no wonder in this world, but I think they're wrong. Maybe some are, I don't know. But you and I, and Phillip Pullman, and many others I've talked to on this site, see the world differently, see just as much beauty and wonder in this world and life within it as do those of faith. We're not joyless – our joy simply comes from a different source.
I've seen it said that the message in these books overpowers the plot; and I'm sure that for some people, it does. But Pullman has said, as I recall, something about how it's not the author's job to tell the reader what the book is about, and I agree with and respect that sentiment. To that end, I will say that for me the plot is about the message, and the message I take from it is what it closes on, that you write about so beautifully. Some people will not like that message, or see a different one, and they're entitled to it. But for me, this was the message I took, and it is one that deeply resonates with me, that I needed in a book. The messages in this book were those I was glad to hear, so I am happy with it. That's just me, though, just one interpretation, and I don't believe that mine is the only valid one.
Perhaps that's the most valuable thing we all can take away from this series, however we feel about it: to think for yourself, and come to your own conclusions, rather than letting someone or something else close your mind for you.
I first read this trilogy a few years ago, and I loved it, and was thus very excited for you to read it too. Not just because of my own enjoyment of it, but because I felt you would enjoy it too, greatly. I'm happy that I was right about your love for it, and feel that even my own previous feelings for the series have been dwarfed by what I feel now for it, and the sheer joy of reliving it alongside you. As I've said before, the slow-paced, one-chapter-per-day method you take on this site suits it well. I was better able to take in so much on a reread, and it enhanced my enjoyment of the books, and being able to see your reactions to everything was something I looked forward to every day. You've laughed and cried and shared stories and speculated, and it really has been so wonderful, because I've been right there with you to share in that laughter, those tears, been touched by your stories, been amused and startled by your predictions and how much you got both right and wrong. I'm honored that you opened up to us the way you did, and grateful that you took on this trilogy. Happy, as well, for I'm more pleased than I can say that the books brought you such joy. Thank you, Mark, for sharing all of this with us. I'm more happy than ever to have discovered this place.
—
On the next projects you shall take on: yay for more Harry Potter! I was hoping you'd say you'd do some more of those between HDM and the next project. 😀 I'm also incredibly excited about those pieces on Lyra's Oxford and Once Upon a Time in the North, HELL YES. I shall have to get off my butt and get 'round to registering at BttS for that, as there are things I MUST comment on in those. Here, I'll rot13 for spoilers one thing in particular for people here who have read those and are curious.
Ng ynfg, gur frperg bevtva bs zl hfreanzr pna or gbyq! Lrf, V gbbx vg sebz Urfgre, jub'f erirnyrq va Bapr Hcba n Gvzr va gur Abegu gb or na nepgvp uner. Vg'f n zvabe guvat, ernyyl, ohg V qba'g jnag gb fnl gung gvyy Znex'f npghnyyl ernq vg, fvapr fur'f abg zragvbarq nf gung fcrpvsvp glcr bs uner va gur znva gevybtl.
As for the secret book, I know from your admitting it on here recently who said writer is (and that clue makes it really easy to guess anyway), so I'm sure I've read it, and will read along with you again. Also excited about The Hobbit, I have a ton of love for that book, will be breaking out my beautiful hardcover illustrated (by Alan Lee!) copy and embarking on my millionth reread as you experience it for the first time. Can't wait!
Yuss. If I believe that this life and world are the only ones we have, why wouldn't I value them and be curious about them? And the rest of your comment is as stellar as usual. I could have sworn you mentioned what you rot13'd on here, but maybe it was the forum? Either way, I can see why you'd be giddy about it! 😀
On the forums, yes, but I don't think everyone here has been by there, and they're being odd right now anyway. o.0 But yes, I can't wait for that!
Nyfb, Urfgre orvat ornhgvshyyl fanexl vf bar bs zl snibevgr guvatf nobhg gung obbx. Fur vf ybir. Gung jubyr fgbel whfg znqr zr ybir ure naq Yrr rira zber, naq V unqa'g gubhtug gung cbffvoyr orpnhfr V nyernql ybirq gurz qrneyl.
Fanexl Urfgre fbhaqf yvxr gur orfg guvat rire. Qbrf fur trg fnffl jvgu Vberx? Jnvg, jnvg, qba'g gryy zr! V ernyyl arrq gb oenir gur enva naq cvpx gurfr pbzcnavba obbxf hc ng gur yvoenel.
Lrf, lbh qb! Rawbl gurz!
I've loved your comments throughout this series, and this is no different! It sums up the mass of feelings I have at the moment, often conflicting with each other. I always thought the ending was beautiful, but I will say that the first time I read this 6 years ago I was pretty distraught. But now I can see a lot more positivity and hope in it, and Mark's final wonderful comments on the 'message' of these books is spot on, and fills me with so much joy and excitement for the world around me. What could be better than that?
for them it is so real, it is one of the worst things they have ever had to go through. It feels like the end of the world for them, and so it is seeing them in such pain that makes a lump form in my throat and tears build in my eyes.
This, exactly. This is what I think of when I see people here talking about how Will and Lyra aren't REALLY in love because you can't be in love when you're twelve and it doesn't last. It's easy for us to belittle the pains of younger people, because we have grown past them and had other hurts happen to us and we know it's not so bad. But to the people going through them, they are THE WORST thing that they've ever experienced. I think a lot of people forget that.
Re-reading Harry Potter is always fun, so yeah, why not? 😀 *cough* And do The Shoebox Project alongside it 'cause it relates to Harry Potter, too. *cough, cough* 😉
I can't comment on anything else, as I've never read His Dark Materials (Oh, the SHAME!), but, I can see the reviews obviously took a lot of time and effort to produce so, thank you for that! 😀
Too much real life going on for me to keep up with commenting as these go along, but now that we're at the end I thought I'd write a little bit about the Russell T Davies/Philip Pullman mutual love-in.
If I can find them, I'll include the texts in replies to this, the brief version is that Davies listed The Amber Spyglass as his book of the year in The Guardian and Pullman wrote the introduction to The Writer's Tale.
The whole Doctor/Rose separation in Doomsday is obviously inspired by The Amber Spyglass, with the 3D glasses even providing a similar function to the spyglass (although void stuff is nothing like Dust). I think there has been some over-literal fuss been made about this out there somewhere. But, as Pullman himself says, it's normal for writers to rework devices from other writers. Indeed the parallel world idea crops up in Doctor Who back in 1970 (in Inferno) and was already an established idea back then. The stories are so particular to themselves in their execution that I don't think a structural similarity in plot resolution is worth making a fuss about.
Anyway, the main point was to draw the positive connection between the writers, given Doctor Who's place in Mark Watches. Texts to follow…
First off, the easy one, from the Guardian books of the year, 2001:
"Russell T Davies – Writer of TV's Queer as Folk
The Amber Spyglass by Philip Pullman (Scholastic, £6.99). I can't stand fantasy novels. Show me a mythical quest and a talking bear, and I'm first out of the door. But this book gave me a good slap, and told me not to be so stupid. Pullman doesn't just create a fantasy world, he takes hold of huge concepts – life and death, Heaven and Hell – rips them up and builds something new. And somehow, he makes all that epic stuff intimate. I had to read one of the closing chapters on a train; I was crying so much, the ticket inspector asked me if I needed help. "
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2001/dec/08/bestb…
And finally, having located it in a paste-able format, here's the Foreword (not the introduction) to The Writer's Tale:
"FOREWORD
I have never met Russell T Davies, but I like him, from
the T on outwards. He steals from the best, which
proves that he is both discriminating and
unscrupulous; he is adventurous and humane, not a
common combination; and most of all he's full of a
boundless energy, which fizzes out of these pages like
champagne. He's a genuine maker. Everybody knows
Doctor Who, and Queer as Folk, and Torchwood.. They made
a difference: they have stamped his authority on the TV
screen for a long time to come. My favourite among his
stories is Mine All Mine, for the simple reason that it was
charming, and it confirmed my long-held view that the
Welsh are the sexiest people in the world.
But what's this book about? Specifically, it's about the
writing — and the re-writing, and the talking about, and
the thinking about, and the arguing about the scripts for a
series of Doctor Who.
However, it's not the theme that's important. What
matters are the insights and the vivid and illuminating
comments that crop up on the way, as Davies examines the
whole business of storytelling. Take the theme itself. Davies
says – and he's dead right — 'Maybe that's when bad scripts
are written, when you choose the theme first. I consider
that I've something to say when I've thought about a person,
a moment, a single beat of the heart, that I think is true and
interesting, and therefore should be seen.'
That's true of novels, stage plays, films, short stories –
any narrative that's made up in order to illuminate a theme
has a quality of duty rather than joy. It's what Yeats called
making the will do the work of the imagination.
He's also right — by which I mean, of course, that his
opinion coincides with mine — on the subject of
writer's block: T don't know why, but I sort of react with
revulsion to that phrase. I imagine it to mean sitting there
with No Ideas At All. For me, it feels more like the ideas
just won't take the right shape or form.'
He's pugnacious, and rightly so, when faced with
narrow-minded prejudice: the key is 'not to defend the
work, because I think defence always sounds like an
apology, but to go on the attack.' But he's also sensitive to
the difficulties less experienced writers face when trying to
deal, for example, with the relentless and merciless idiocy
of internet 'criticism'. His attitude is, again, mine, and
therefore resonantly true: 'Creating something is not a
democracy. The people have no say. The artist does. It
doesn't matter what the people witter on about: they and
their response come after. They're not there for the
creation.'
In fact, not only is Russell T Davies a great TV writer, a
vigorous and creative producer, a wise and perceptive
commentator on the profound business of storytelling,
and I dare say (I have never met him) a figure of godlike
and unearthly personal beauty, he is probably
omnicompetent. Reading this excellent book I was more
than once put in mind of the old song Abdul the Bulbul
Amir'. The Bulbul's opponent in that epic conflict was Ivan
Skivinsky Skivar, who 'could imitate Irving, play poker or
pool, and perform on the Spanish guitar.'
Such a man is Russell T Davies. This book is a treasury
of wit, of truthfulness, and of good sound storytelling
sense, and well worth stealing from.
PHILIP PULLMAN
May 2008"
I love this series so very deeply, and I am so glad I decided to revisit it now I am older. Few book series have followed me around through my life as much as this one has. The beauty and power of this series is almost overwhelming to me at the moment, and I can guarantee that it's going to be very jarring to go to class in a few minutes. In particular, the separation of Will and Lyra HURTS MY SOUL. But the idea of the Republic of Heaven fills me with more joy than almost any other idea I can think of right now. Those two things combined mean that I am crying as I type this.
Mostly I just would like to thank you, Mark, for doing these reviews and putting the things I felt while reading into words that almost affected me as much as the text itself. I really appreciate how much of yourself you have shared and I think you are a truly fantastic human. I look forward to all of your future projects.
I think most of what I would say has been said already (and better lol), but one thing I noticed was how much more I like The Amber Spyglass on this reread. I think I generally devour books too fast to get all I can out of them, so it was really great to do this one chapter at a time. I was not planning on reading along for The Hobbit and LOTR because (unpopular opinion time) I just don't like Tolkien's writing and I figured that slogging through those once was more than enough. However, since I have found that I enjoy reading books so much more in this format, I think I will give it a go and read along.
I actually think Tolkien will be particularly well-suited for this style because it will allow his beautiful writing to be the star. Unlike, say, The Hunger Games, which are a super-quick read but don't have much in the way of poetry.
Question for Mark and all Tolkien fans who plan to read along with The Hobbit! As I mentioned in my above comment, I own a hardcover, illustrated edition of that book, and I'm fairly sure that not everyone does, and that Mark's Kindle edition will almost certainly lack the beautiful artwork by Alan Lee (whom I feel it is not a spoiler to say was one of the two conceptual designers for Peter Jackson's film adaptations of LOTR). Since I have access to a scanner, I would know this: would you all, Mark especially, like it if I scanned some of my favorite pieces of art from my book? Perhaps one or two per chapter?
YES! I would love you forever if you did! I have the old Mass Market Paperback editions that lack any artwork 🙁
YES!!
Also, can you tell me the isbn of your edition so I can see if my library has it?
Absolutely! Its ISBN is 0-395-87346-0. I hope your library has it, it's a really beautiful edition. <3
(I love that I posted this right above a video of Phillip Pullman talking about the importance of illustration in books.)
Do you have that version of the LotR books as well? If not, I do, and I might be able to scan and post pictures from those. I don't have that version of the Hobbit, so I'm excited to see the art from that book!
I don't, sadly! I would love it if you could, it'd be like an art exchange! 😀
Yay! I don't know how high of quality scans I can do, but this is good plan!
Awesome! 😀
More pretty pictures? Huzzah!
(That's me, keeping my eye on the really important stuff. *g*)
I just remembered! I have a calendar that depicts the landscapes from different points in the books, unfortunately I don't think the pictures are small enough to fit in my scanner…..
Should I scan part of them, or should I just forgo the whole thing…?
Edit: Actually I just found a website with all the pages.
Spoilers for Lord of the Rings & the Hobbit http://www.tolkiencalendar.com/Tolkien_Calendar_F…
GUH, PRETTY. Who did these? Ted Nasmith?
Also you should post the individual images as we get to those places in the books!
Yay, they do have it! At my library even! I can pick it up TODAY! *excite*
OMG YAY! As Toph would say, SWEETNESS. <3
Yes, please 🙂
Count me in as a fan of pretty pictures. 😀
YES!
Like you have to ask.
YES PLEASE FOREVER.
Standing ovation for this post, Mark. You've outdone yourself. Truth. And good writing. Friend, there were a lot of damaging things in life that you did not deserve, but you deserve your writing gift because of how you use it.
I love Mark Reads and His Dark Materials.
THIS IS THE BEST BOOK CLUB EVER.
There's no epigraph for this last chapter of TAS, but for those who are interested, in place of the epigraph in the first UK edition of the book is this.
<img src="http://www.bridgetothestars.net/misc_gallery/albums/Extras/TAS-Epigraphs/scan0008.jpg">
Don't forget, you have the chance to ASK PHILIP PULLMAN A QUESTION with our September Contests over at BridgeToTheStars.net! <a href="http://www.bridgetothestars.net/news/september-contest-and-mark-reads-week-8/” target=”_blank”>http://www.bridgetothestars.net/news/september-contest-and-mark-reads-week-8/
Aww, I love this!
There's a video on YouTube oh Philip Pullman giving a lecture at the Open University on the importance of illustrations in books. The whole thing is on there, but is about 80 mins long, but this bit is all about the use of illustrations in HDM:
[youtube nYhSE_IrJAk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYhSE_IrJAk youtube]
As well as some really nice examples from the Folio Society version (see more here: http://peterbaileyillustrations.blogspot.com/), he also mentions his own illustrations for NL/TGC and TSK, and basically that there was no time to add them to The Amber Spyglass, hence the epigraphs. Except the last chapter that is.
To summarise from the video, he tried other things; the bench, the garden… but nothing would work. So he went with something a little more abstract to represent Will and Lyra, because the chapter isn't really about a where, but a feeling:
<3
I have that in my US omnibus too! In all previous chapters, as with the other books, there have been small pictures next to the beginning of the text, with the quotes above the chapter title in small print. For chapter thirty-eight, it is, of course, this lovely little illustration. All of the ones so far have been of something to do with the content of the chapter; but this one is one of my two favorites, and perhaps the most poignant (its biggest competitor being the one of Hester in chapter fourteen of TSK and oh mustn't well up again). I think it's beautiful not just because it is of plants, so appropriate to the Garden – but because it is of two flowers tied together, who nevertheless face in opposite directions. Lyra and Will, tied together forever, but in separate worlds.
As for finding my daemon, I went to a few different websites and took a few quizzes and I got the same answer each time, so I guess it is safe to say that my daemon is a CAT (just like Will, who, come to think of it, I have a lot in common with lol)! Now I just need a name…
On a side note, I found this quiz that sorts you into a house from A Song of Ice and Fire (I'm a Targaryen, awesome): http://www.helloquizzy.com/tests/a-song-of-ice-an…
<img src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_IYe31i7QP5c/SQ6KVREziuI/AAAAAAAAABA/zEBmsZBHk6o/S259/cat2.bmp">
CAT – your daemon may be a cat if you are independent and comfort loving. You follow your heart and do what you want to do – no matter what others think. You have a strong sense of your own worth, and an inner dignity. You may be loving and generous in one moment, and then lash out at someone in the next. You have as many moods as there are colours in a rainbow, and you wear them all brilliantly. You always know what you want right now – although in five minutes you may change your mind and set your sights elsewhere. You like to do things with style and flair. When someone else orders you to do something, do you feel an unholy urge to do exactly the opposite? That just might be your inner daemon talking.
Ok yeah I keep getting Cat and that sounds just like me. Especially "When someone else orders you to do something, do you feel an unholy urge to do exactly the opposite? That just might be your inner daemon talking." Being contrary is like my superpower.
lol, SAME HERE! My friend at work is always making comments about how "defiant" I am lol.
I don't even listen when I tell myself to do things, like "Go to bed early." I'm just glad I'm obedient about spoilers here!
OMG, are you me? I have SUCH a problem doing anything anyone thinks I "should" do, even myself.
Isn't it sometimes the worst?
I've been trying for years to get myself to go to bed and wake up early but when it comes time to put the book down or turn off the TV to sleep it's basically "NO I don't WANNA and YOU CAN'T MAKE ME." To get any success I have to convince myself that what I should do is what I want to do – like this week I tried going to sleep early a few days, so I have some data points showing that I feel better when I do that. The next time I try to stay up I can say to myself "Remember how nice it was when you went to sleep? You probably want that to happen some more right? Good girl, let's go sleep!"
In keep getting a snake, which is pretty cool. I do love snakes.
Clearly I am Lord Voldemort. 😛
Haha, I took the quiz sort of linked to on the first page a while ago, and I got ~Independent Soul~ or whatever, and my options where things like osprey, snow leopard, and SNOWY OWL. Named Hedwig, duh. And I've taken that ASOIAF quiz and a few others before, too. Always a Stark. Jryy, V'z fperjrq.
Me, too! We can be independent souls together … except independent souls wouldn't do that. Damn.
I've always felt that my daemon is a tiger. It's been my spirit animal since I was a kid; my "inner animal" in Chinese astrology (from the hour block in which you're born) is a tiger. I have a tiger tattoo on my left arm (to access my right brain, see). So: tiger. And his name is Bastian.
Haha, we'll be comrades in the comments. That way we can maintain the appropriate distance!
That's really neat! I like your devotion to the tiger. I'm imagining a huge, rampant tiger tattoo, btw. I thought the hourly one was your secret animal? Anyway, for me it's year = rat, month = rat, hour = pig. I'm devastated that I was born half an hour to early to be a triple rat.
You have a tiger tattoo JUST LIKE GAETA IN BSG
I got Open Solitary Soul. Suggested forms: Panda, Arctic Fox, Domestic Cat, Wood Thrush, Spitz dog.
I'll go with domestic cat! I love cats!
I'm an otter. (I lie on my back and do cute little human things with my paws!) it was the only one of my suggested forms that clicked. I bet he's a nosy little fcuk too, lol.
I'm a Targaryen too, apparently, but I have no idea what it means, since I haven't read the books 😛
I feel ashamed that I have never read any of Neil Gaimon's work. I've been told that I would really like them, but I've sadly never gotten around to them.
Yes, genuine storytelling––that's it. That's what I want from a work like this. I do believe Pullman respected the reader, in the end, by finishing with what he knew was best for the story. I'm glad I read this series with all of you, and you are all my best buddies ever.
But no ending with Iorek? Boooo. Oh, but here comes John Faa. Yesssss! 😉
Wholeheartedly agree with this, from notemily, above: "Your paragraph about the Republic of Heaven nearly brought tears to my eyes. You're such an amazing writer, and you inspire me, not just to be a better writer, but to be a better person."
I was reading your review here and thinking how you have grown as a writer, and thinker, and how valuable this 53 year old woman finds your own stories as well as your insights into these stories we've all been reading together (even though I rarely post, I'm here!) and I just want to say THANK YOU, MARK, so very very much.
I haven't been commenting too much on these HDM posts, but I have been reading them. And since we're at the end, I would like to explain, in part, why I like the ending where Lyra and Will are forced to be separated.
In the story of Adam and Eve, their carelessness and mistake punishes the rest of humanity. Throughout HDM, Pullman has been inverting the story of Adam and Eve – this is a final act of that. The carelessness of the rest of humanity forces this couple, our Adam and Eve who we love and root for, to be separated not because of anything they did but because others ruined their fate. I like that parallel, and I think the story holds up well when you think of it in terms of symbolism. Yes, you can argue that the whole 'keeping one window open for them to visit each other is just disallowed and stop questioning it' is kind of an asspull. Or that it's not satisfying. But what I am satisfied with is the structure of the story itself. It makes sense that this is how the story ends, and I think within the confines of this series, it makes more sense than a true happily ever after would be. These two characters have had the burden of destiny on their shoulders, and that destiny was what they would do for the world, not what it would do for them. That they would be betrayed by the universe is pretty fitting, I find. But there's still hope, and what this series has been emphasizing is a celebration of consciousness. They are still alive and have their experiences and the memories of all they've done together. They may not be allowed to be physically together, but they will be in each other's minds and that is something to celebrate. They still have each other, and that's not being taken away.
That's a really lovely way of looking at it – I hadn't thought of the inversion of Adam and Eve's fate, much as I loved how he inverted the story of the Fall itself in earlier chapters. Beautifully said; this makes me appreciate the ending even more.
Thanks. I think it's supposed to be unfair, you know?
I agree!
OHHHHHHHHHHH.
I didn't read the book chapter by chapter as Mark did, but during August when I reread it I found this site and I kept reading the reviews every day. And now that the reviews have ended I have the same feeling of heaviness in my heart, need of rest in my mind and emptiness in my hands as when I finished it the two times I read it.
How unfair life is: we can't see our daemons, we don't get to meet the mulefa, the witches or the panserbjorne, we aren't as great as Will and Lyra, they don't get to be together, they're not even real (they are of course in the hearts of all of us) and this book has come to an end.
But still I'm lying, cause life is wonderful so, let's all go build the republic of heavens down here on earth and keep this book up there where our favourite ones are.
Oh, Mark. I've been only here since the, what, eleventh or so chapter of The Golden Compass and haven't commented much, but I'm so glad and grateful for this site. I have a weird, but deep feeling of being at home when I'm here, reading through all this emotional comments and thinking hard about the opinions of people I'll never meet, but still feel somehow connected with.
It's been a wonderful journey. Reading here along with all of you just filled me up with so much joy. As you would say, Mark, everything's beautiful and nothing hurts =)
I'll stay here for hopefully as long as this community exists, I'm really looking forward to Tolkien's works (which in a way I like even more than Pullman's) and all of your future projects, but for now, for everything you did and shared with us, I just want to say
Thank you Mark.
Babylon 5 spoilers:
Nf sbe Qryraa, rirel zbeavat sbe nf ybat nf fur yvirq, Qryraa tbg hc orsber qnja naq jngpurq gur fha pbzr hc.
I mean, right? RIGHT?
A very long time ago, in a post from the first or second book, someone asked the question, "Do you like the ending?" and asked us to respond with just yes or no. My answer? "No. But yes."
I hate, hate, hate that there isn't a way for Lyra and Will to be together, it shatters my heart into tiny shards, but I know, like Pullman said, that it is what had to happen. I long for the day when both of them die (as ridiculous as it is to type that sentence) so that their atoms can be reunited. Because a heart in love longs every second for its other half, it is constantly tuned to the other, like a compass needle to the north. You can feel it physically, and Lyra and Will are too young to hurt so bad.
But, like Lyra had to learn by the end of this trilogy, lying doesn't hold a candle to the truth. The truth is, we can lie to ourselves all we want, we can say that they can be together, we can pretend that it can happen. But the truth of the world is that they can't, and if Pullman had put them together, had found a loophole, he would have been lying to us, and we would have been lying to ourselves.
And, if this story has taught us anything, isn't it that lies have no part in good storytelling?
I really like this. Very nice way of saying it.
"And, if this story has taught us anything, isn't it that lies have no part in good storytelling?"
This. You speak the truth. All truly good stories, even with completely fictional and fantastic elements, have to have some truth at their heart to be effective.
*longtimelurker*
Hm, in my translation, at one point (I think chap. 37?) Xaphania says Will CAN learn how to pass through the dimensions like the angels can, but it would take a very long time.
I still hope that someday, he managed, and that they were able to meet again. *cries*
/back to lurking
All the love in the world for this review, the future plans and the site in general. <3
So, now I understand the significance of the banner.*sniff* I love the image of them sitting “together” at the same time, just in different worlds. I can totally see it as a scene in a movie, maybe with a split screen. (I just hope they do remember where they were supposed to be on the bench, so they don’t, like, sit on each other through the time-space continuum or something.)
I love the idea of Mary and Will being friends and Mary looking out for him and his mom. I wish we had gotten a little bit more about what happened to them, even if it was just to see how they got off the hook with the authorities, child protection services, Mary’s employers, etc. And when Atal gave Mary wheel-pod tree seeds, I couldn’t help think, “What if it DOES grow in her world?” It might be hard to explain how a never-before seen species of tree that just happens to produce giant wheels and stand as tall as a skyscraper ended up in her backyard. =/
I love how they ending of Lyra’s story call back to how she was introduced in TGC, which feels like so long ago, even though it’s only been, what, a few months, maybe a year at most? But she’s grown and changed so much she’s like a different person. But Oxford and the college are still home for her. And that last line- sheer perfection. In fact, that sums up most of HDM pretty well.
Mark, thank you, THANK YOU, for reading this series. I don’t know when I would have gotten around to reading it on my own, if ever, without this as motivation. I don’t know if they’re my favorite books ever, but they’re going very, very near the top of the list.
You'll never be able to look at a picture of a bench again!
I'm delighted that Mark choosing these books has lead to new people falling in love with it.
I'd like to see fanart of Will and Lyra sitting on the bench in their different worlds. Someone must have drawn that, right?
Of course, quite a few. Stuff like this:
http://attachments.conceptart.org/forums/attachme… http://www.bridgetothestars.net/fanart/lyra_will/…
I love the image of them sitting “together” at the same time, just in different worlds. I can totally see it as a scene in a movie, maybe with a split screen.
Ready for some insight into my 13 year old brain? This trilogy made me want to be a screenwriter for a few years because I want people to love and appreciate the same things that mean a lot to me and that I enjoy and obviously these books would have looked amazing on screen. But anyway, this was one of the scenes I had written out in full. I know I still have it somewhere, possibly on my old computer. And basically it had Pan asking Lyra about what they were building and then Will would appear and become sort of more solid or moved closer to Lyra until they were in focus and on the bench together and they both said, "The Republic of Heaven." And then end scene. The details are fuzzy now but I'm ready for my career writing fanfic clearly.
You were a much better 13-year-old writer than I was! Your addition of Will to the scene and the end line gave me chills. No kidding.
That is brilliant!
I've barely commented this whole time, but I just wanna say thanks for such thoughtful reviews. In my mind I had set up a dichotomy between Harry Potter and His Dark Materials (in an attempt to avoid choosing a favorite tbh), assigning HP to the "emotional/spiritual" side and HDM to the "intellectual" one – but now, especially after choking up while reading this last review, I'll have to scrap the whole thing. HDM, while a rejection of organized religion, is indeed very spiritual in a way.
OMG MARK'S READING TOLKIEN NEXT!!!! EXCITE!!
My guess for the one-off: Is it something by Neil Gaiman? He wrote an ep for Doctor Who…
Im really late on posting because I just started achool this week but:omg Mark you finished. I always wanted to read these novels once the church i used to belong to (i have since fully accepted that I just can’t believe in god) put a message out that no one should let their kids read this series or see the movie (needless to say the movie wasnt that great but its the principle). Well when this message was put out I decided I wanted to read it but could never convince my parents to let me read it (i was younger). Well when you said you were going to read His Dark Materials I was so happy because now that I am almost 18 I no longer need to go to my parents to buy books, movies, etc.
You know, I never teared up at this book? Which makes me feel bad, because who the hell doesn't, it's SO SAD and heartwrenching- but somehow it felt so right, almost, I never did.
But I totally got something in my eye at the conclusion of this review. A bonsai tree, perhaps, in my eye? I don't know. It's late! I'm incoherant! And trying not to cry at how lovely the way you ended these was! Gimme a break here.
Ahem.
These were a true joy to read, Mark, and thank you for doing this.
"There’s definitely a tree in my eye." Hee.
Now you can read The Ivory Horn, http://www.yuletidetreasure.org/archive/40/theivo…. An excellent fanfic focusing on Will after Lyra that I read a few weeks ago. With a suprise guest from another fandom.
I'm not one for fanfic usually, but this was great! I loved how it managed to tie together two different stories in a way that was fairly believable. And some good character progression too. Nice find!
Are you going to watch the movie? The movie kind of sucks but I still bought it because its better than nothing. Re-reading those last chapters never gets any better. Not after the second, seventh or eighteenth time. I still get tears in my eyes.
"I got nothing that I wanted. And I imagine this wasn’t easy for Pullman to write"
I highly doubt that. Pullman likes to write sad things happening to his characters. The Sally Lockhart series is an example of that. He's very brutal. I admire and hate him for it. I always always say this about the ending for this series. I totally accept what happened to Will and Lyra, its a very realistic ending. But I'll never be happy about it.
Do you mean TGC movie? He did a liveblog of it over on Mark Watches. Consensus was 'guh!'. 🙂
OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!!!!
HARRY POTTER IS COMING BACK! MY BELOVED HARRY IS BACK! FUCK YES YES YES YES YES!!!!
Don't worry Mark, the adorableness of Sorceror's Stone is going to cheer you up! And maybe you can get pocket a pocket Lyra and Will to go with your pocket Ron, Hermione, and other HP characters. 🙂
Crying, Mark, crying. So much crying, while at work.
Also – the one off book – author who wrote for Mark Watches….
Neil Gaiman – American Gods?
If I'm right… holy SHIT are you not prepared,.
I really hope it's Good Omens! *fingers crossed*
I’m late, and I have such mixed feelings.
To get this out of the way first: I did enjoy Will and Lyra’s journey, and Mary and the Melufa, and I liked “We have to build the Republic of Heaven where we are” (and Lee!, and Iorek!, and even Lord Asriel and Lyra’s mother). So I’m not as unsatisfied as I had feared to be around chapter 28.
But still, for the first time I’m disappointed by a book I read with Mark. Parts of the background felt so wrong that I could never really suspend my disbelief.
Looking back, “Æsahættr” in TSK was the chapter where Pullman lost me, when Ruta Skadi was so excited about Lord Asriel’s war. Terrible things have been done in the name of God, I get this. But just kill God and all will be good? Sorry, this doesn’t work. People don’t need God to do terrible thigs, and Lord Asriel may be an example for this. (Arguably, because if there had been no “God” to fight, he might have been a kind person and good father?).
Lord Asriel had the shamans’ ability to have delivered to them whatever they needed. Ruta Skadi suggested that he might also have mastered time. So he was super-human? How could this be? This was never addressed again.
If Lord Asriel wasn’t Master of Time and couldn’t spent a lifetime on building his fortress, spreading the news across multiple worlds, and gathering his army (BTW not aging a bit) whyle Lyra spent about a week walking to Cittagazze and traveling with Will, he must have planned and worked on this in advance. But if Asriel or at least his allies knew already about the other worlds and other passages, why had he to break out in such a violent way, killing Roger and nearly destroying his home world? I fully understand the plot reasons: Lyra had to oppose to everything both her parents did. But I waited for some in-story technical or strategical explanation.
This may totally have been my own fault, because I forgot that Asriel had already given an explanation (thanks to Mauve Avenger for the quote, because I don’t have instant acess to the books for a reread):
<blockqote>
"Too many people will want to [cross into the parallel universe]. They won't be able to prevent them. This will mean the end of the Church, Marisa, the end of the Magisterium, the end of all those centuries of darkness! Look at that light up there; that's the sun of another world! Feel the warmth of it on your skin, now!" </Blockqote>
The windows between the worlds were not well known, not easy to find, and easy to guard if the church did find them. Now there was a signal that could not be overlooked, and the church had to guard a whole ocean to prevent people travelling into other worlds. (In the end it was confirmed that Asriel had blown a hole into the multiverse that connected more than two worlds, otherwise the Gypters’ ship could not have gone to the Mulefa’s land and to Cittagazze.) But the church could also send armies through this hole, and I’m still not sure if the collateral damage was justified.
Then we learned that Dr. Grumman/Parry knew all about the subtle knife and the windows between the worlds, but never tried to use this knowledge to go home and look for his wife and son. Sorry, I don’t like this man. Yes, they were lost in a snow storm when they found the passage to Cittagazze, but the storm was on the Alaska side of the window, there is no reason why Parry shouldn’t have been able to find his way back to this window in Cittagazze. Yes, the spectres got his companions, and Parry may not have dared to travel through Cittagazze again, but then he did, trying to find the bearer of the subtle knife. So, when we met Mr. Parry again in the world of the dead, I hoped for some kind of explanation, even if it only was: “Being a shaman, I just knew that I should stay away from home”.
I could come up with better excuses (and I like to figure things out on my own), so I’m not complaining that this wasn’t explained here. But even if Will didn’t dare to ruin the little joy they had in the world of the dead by asking: “Where have you been all these years, dad?”, I wondered why Mr. Parry didn’t find the time to say: “I really wanted to come home, son, but …”, followed by a good story for the harpies.
To be continued … (Did I say ”I’m not a man of much words” lol).
ETA: I managed to mess this up in some way. What you see here is Part 2 of a long comment. Part 1 seems to be "under moderation"?
Instead, Mr. Parry displayed more incomprehensible shaman knowledge. How could he know not only about the bomb, but also that it would similarize to the hair that had been closest to the hair in the bomb, not just go to the gratest mass of similar material? And why did the bomb do this? (Be quite, scientific mind. It’s magic, it doesn’t need to be reasonable.)
After all this talk about controversy, I had expected some big statement, like “God is evil”, “God is dead”, or “God did never exist in the first place”. But then, the Almighty was just an impostor, brought down by some silly cliff-ghasts who had misunderstood a foxes tale, and happily dying of old age when he left the protection of his crystal cage. (I’m not really complaining here, I actually loved the Authority’s end). Oh, and there was Metatron, the evil overlords chancellor on his way to become the new evil overlord. After all this, it’s still unkown if The Creator doesn’t exist, doesn’t care or does care in a way incomprehensible to Its creation. This is actually what I believe: it’s impossible to know and doesn’t really matter. But in the context of what Pullman pretended to do in TGC and TSK, it felt like a cheap cop-out.
Also, I did no longer like the Alethiometer, because “everybody” used one and it was such a convenient way to know what to do next. And if there was no Alethiometer, or no time, or the Alethiometrist didn’t think of asking, there was also shaman knowledge and witch wisdom and angel’s advice delivered just in time. In the end, this felt far too much like the Hand of God, arranging everything to destroy the impostor and his successor and to lead all creation back on the right path.
So now we know: It cares, and we can even see at least part of Its intentions: we were given our mind to use it. But why did It wait threehundredthousand years? Because in Its perception of time, onethousand years are like one day, and It liked to do some planning before going into action?
This is assumed to be written by an atheist? Are you kidding?
After reading Mark’s review, this sounds a little bit too sarcastic. So here is an alternate ending: Philip Pullman made me see another of the possible Creator’s possible intentions – the world was not handed over to us ready for use, because we have to build the Republic of Heaven here on Earth.
Thank you, Mark, and keep telling stories.
I’m late, and I have such mixed feelings.
To get this out of the way first: I did enjoy Will and Lyra’s journey, and Mary and the Melufa, and I liked “We have to build the Republic of Heaven where we are” (and Lee!, and Iorek!, and even Lord Asriel and Lyra’s mother). So I’m not as unsatisfied as I had feared to be around chapter 28.
But still, for the first time I’m disappointed by a book I read with Mark. Parts of the background felt so wrong that I could never really suspend my disbelief.
Looking back, “Æsahættr” in TSK was the chapter where Pullman lost me, when Ruta Skadi was so excited about Lord Asriel’s war. Terrible things have been done in the name of God, I get this. But just kill God and all will be good? Sorry, this doesn’t work. People don’t need God to do terrible thigs, and Lord Asriel may be an example for this. (Arguably, because if there had been no “God” to fight, he might have been a kind person and good father?).
Lord Asriel had the shamans’ ability to have delivered to them whatever they needed. Ruta Skadi suggested that he might also have mastered time. So he was super-human? How could this be? This was never addressed again.
If Lord Asriel wasn’t Master of Time and couldn’t spent a lifetime on building his fortress, spreading the news across multiple worlds, and gathering his army (BTW not aging a bit) whyle Lyra spent about a week walking to Cittagazze and traveling with Will, he must have planned and worked on this in advance. But if Asriel or at least his allies knew already about the other worlds and other passages, why had he to break out in such a violent way, killing Roger and nearly destroying his home world? I fully understand the plot reasons: Lyra had to oppose to everything both her parents did. But I waited for some in-story technical or strategical explanation.
This may totally have been my own fault, because I forgot that Asriel had already given an explanation (thanks to Mauve Avenger for the quote, because I don’t have instant acess to the books for a reread):
<blockqote>
"Too many people will want to [cross into the parallel universe]. They won't be able to prevent them. This will mean the end of the Church, Marisa, the end of the Magisterium, the end of all those centuries of darkness! Look at that light up there; that's the sun of another world! Feel the warmth of it on your skin, now!" </Blockqote>
The windows between the worlds were not well known, not easy to find, and easy to guard if the church did find them. Now there was a signal that could not be overlooked, and the church had to guard a whole ocean to prevent people travelling into other worlds. (In the end it was confirmed that Asriel had blown a hole into the multiverse that connected more than two worlds, otherwise the Gypters’ ship could not have gone to the Mulefa’s land and to Cittagazze.) But the church could also send armies through this hole, and I’m still not sure if the collateral damage was justified.
Then we learned that Dr. Grumman/Parry knew all about the subtle knife and the windows between the worlds, but never tried to use this knowledge to go home and look for his wife and son. Sorry, I don’t like this man. Yes, they were lost in a snow storm when they found the passage to Cittagazze, but the storm was on the Alaska side of the window, there is no reason why Parry shouldn’t have been able to find his way back to this window in Cittagazze. Yes, the spectres got his companions, and Parry may not have dared to travel through Cittagazze again, but then he did, trying to find the bearer of the subtle knife. So, when we met Mr. Parry again in the world of the dead, I hoped for some kind of explanation, even if it only was: “Being a shaman, I just knew that I should stay away from home”.
I could come up with better excuses (and I like to figure things out on my own), so I’m not complaining that this wasn’t explained here. But even if Will didn’t dare to ruin the little joy they had in the world of the dead by asking: “Where have you been all these years, dad?”, I wondered why Mr. Parry didn’t find the time to say: “I really wanted to come home, son, but …”, followed by a good story for the harpies.
To be continued … (Did I say ”I’m not a man of much words” lol).
ETA Sorry if this is doubled. It didn't seem to show up on first attempt.
Instead, Mr. Parry displayed more incomprehensible shaman knowledge. How could he know not only about the bomb, but also that it would similarize to the hair that had been closest to the hair in the bomb, not just go to the gratest mass of similar material? And why did the bomb do this? (Be quite, scientific mind. It’s magic, it doesn’t need to be reasonable.)
After all this talk about controversy, I had expected some big statement, like “God is evil”, “God is dead”, or “God did never exist in the first place”. But then, the Almighty was just an impostor, brought down by some silly cliff-ghasts who had misunderstood a foxes tale, and happily dying of old age when he left the protection of his crystal cage. (I’m not really complaining here, I actually loved the Authority’s end). Oh, and there was Metatron, the evil overlords chancellor on his way to become the new evil overlord. After all this, it’s still unkown if The Creator doesn’t exist, doesn’t care or does care in a way incomprehensible to Its creation. This is actually what I believe: it’s impossible to know and doesn’t really matter. But in the context of what Pullman pretended to do in TGC and TSK, it felt like a cheap cop-out.
Also, I did no longer like the Alethiometer, because “everybody” used one and it was such a convenient way to know what to do next. And if there was no Alethiometer, or no time, or the Alethiometrist didn’t think of asking, there was also shaman knowledge and witch wisdom and angel’s advice delivered just in time. In the end, this felt far too much like the Hand of God, arranging everything to destroy the impostor and his successor and to lead all creation back on the right path.
So now we know: It cares, and we can even see at least part of Its intentions: we were given our mind to use it. But why did It wait threehundredthousand years? Because in Its perception of time, onethousand years are like one day, and It liked to do some planning before going into action?
This is assumed to be written by an atheist? Are you kidding?
After reading Mark’s review, this sounds a little bit too sarcastic. So here is an alternate ending: Philip Pullman made me see another of the possible Creator’s possible intentions – the world was not handed over to us ready for use, because we</string> have to build the Republic of Heaven here on Earth.
Thank you, Mark, and keep telling stories.
If anyone's still reading the comments here, does anyone have any fanfic recommendations for this series? There just seems to be so many "Lyra and Will get together after all and everything is GRATE" clones that it's hard to sift through them all. And badly written self-insert fics. And general do not want.
Anyone? 🙂
I'm not usually one for fanfic, I think it's very difficult for even the well-written ones (which seem to be rare!) to have the same type of feeling as source material, and often people have vastly different interpretations of characters.
However, tigerpetals posted quite a good one a few days ago, so I won't take credit for it: http://markreads.net/reviews/2011/09/mark-reads-t…
I like that it focuses on Will, and matches with my own feelings that out of him and Lyra, he'd be the one who'd struggle to adapt to life post-TAS.
My ex-boyfriend fell apart when he got to where Will and Lyra had to part. I guess he could relate to it – we ended up going back to our separate worlds in the end as well.
That is some awesome prose on your part as well.
Thank you so much for reading this series and sharing your insights and personal experiences. I read HDM a few years ago, loved it, then sort of forgot about it (awful, I know). This reintroduction has made me love the books even more, if that's possible. The discussions and analysis (both from Mark and all the comments) have given the books many, many new levels of meaning that I had missed.
I can honestly say these books have altered my perspective on the world, how I treat others, and how I hope to live my life.
So again, THANK YOU for bringing them back into my radar and providing such a wonderful forum to discuss these topics.
I am a bit curious about what the people who emailed Mark about faith think of the pope's stance against homosexuality.
Mark Reads His Dark Materials is the first thing I’ve read on this site, and it was an amazing experience to be able to read your thoughts on the books. I enjoyed getting to know you.
Side note– His Dark Materials is one of my all time favorite stories. Which isn’t terribly interesting until you know that I’m LDS. Not that people who are LDS can’t like this series, but it’s definitely more uncommon.
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[WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The poster sent us ‘0 which is not a hashcash value.
You know what's the sign of a truly touching book? When just reading your review of this last chapter brought back all the raw emotion and pure grief I felt on completion of this book a couple ago.
(currently reading your HP sequence and loving it – I'm reading them again for the first time through your eyes)
Thanks!
*a couple of months, sorry