In the second chapter of Catching Fire, Katniss is horrified by a confrontation with President Snow, who reveals that he knows more about her life than she previously thought. Intrigued? Then it’s time for Mark to read Catching Fire.
In my mind, President Snow should be viewed in front of marble pillars hung with oversized flags. It’s jarring to see him surrounded by the ordinary objects in the room. Like taking the lid off a pot and finding a fanged viper instead of stew.
Man, you were doing so well there. That last line is so awkward to read. That’s not jarring as much as it is really weird and bizarre. I think you meant to go for juxtaposition, which a snake stew doesn’t really do.
Regardless, I get what she means and I was honestly shocked to have President Snow show up so early in the story. STRIKE ONE AGAINST MY PREDICTING ABILITIES. The fact that he does show up early, though, is a sign for things to come. Shit isn’t quite real yet, but I feel like this is a beacon of Shit Getting Real-ery.
All I was doing was trying to keep Peeta and myself alive. Any act of rebellion was purely coincidental. But when the Capitol decrees that only one tribute can live and you have the audacity to challenge it, I guess that’s a rebellion in itself.
Ummm….I’m calling bullshit on this. If she was speaking this aloud to President Snow, I wouldn’t even have pointed out this in a review. If I recall correctly, Katniss was reminded of Peeta’s conversation about identity on the roof in the latter half of the Games; Collins seemed to have made it pretty clear that Katniss’s actions were at least partially motivated by this. So, even if her intent wasn’t to fully be rebellious, she seemed to acknowledge that it was partially.
I don’t know. That passage is really strange. ::shifty eyes::
“I think we’ll make this whole situation a lot simpler by agreeing not to lie to each other,†he says. “What do you think?â€
I think my tongue has frozen and speech will be impossible, so I surprise myself by answering back in a steady voice, “Yes, I think that would save time.â€
I think we all know Katniss isn’t a great liar, so I found this start to their conversation to be kind of refreshing. They can dispense with passive lying and Collins can quietly acknowledge that there’s no point to writing a scene where Katniss tries to lie to the president of Panem. It’s going to make the Victory Tour scenes either super interesting or super frustrating. We shall see.
“My advisors were concerned you would be difficult, but you’re not planning on being difficult, are you?†he asks.
“No,†I answer.
“That’s what I told them. I said any girl who goes to such lengths to preserve her live isn’t going to be interested in throwing it away with both hands. And then there’s her family to think of. Her mother, her sister, and all those…cousins.†By the way he lingers on the word “cousins,†I can tell he knows Gale and I don’t share a family tree.
Oh, snap! Collins makes their conversation so much more fascinating, right off the bat, precisely because of the honesty. I know it may seem like a small thing to latch on to, but dialogue is what can make or break a book for me. (Read Richard Price, by the way. Best dialogue writer of all time.)
“I have a problem, Miss Everdeen,†says President Snow. “A problem that began the moment you pulled out those poisonous berries in the arena.â€
Well, he’s definitely dispensing with any sort of euphemistic pleasantry and getting straight to the point.
“If the head Gamemaker, Seneca Crane, had had any brains, he’d have blown you to dust right then. But he had an unfortunate sentimental streak. So here you are. Can you guess where he is?†he asks.
Did you make the earth open up and eat him. Someone, seriously give this to me.
The smell of roses and blood has grown stronger now that only a desk separates us. There’s a rose in President Snow’s lapel, which at least suggests a source of the flower perfume. As for the blood…I don’t know.
I like the juxtaposition here (not the snake stew analogy), but I’m creeped out because I don’t like the smell of blood. If I were in Katniss’s place right now, I would have probably peed myself already. Oh, wait, I would have died long ago.
“After that, there was nothing to do but let you play out your little scenario. And you were pretty good, too, with the love-crazed schoolgirl bit. The people in the Capitol were quite convinced. Unfortunately, not everyone in the districts fell for your act,†he says.
Well, damn. I actually expected it to be the other way around.
“This, of course, you don’t know. You have no access to information about the mood in other districts.â€
Wait, you do? How do you measure that? I want to know more about their eerie surveillance methods.
“In several of them, however, people have viewed your little trick with the berries as an act of defiance, not an act of love. And if a girl from District Twelve of all places can defy the Capitol and walk away unharmed, what is to stop them from doing the same?†he says. “What is to prevent, say, an uprising?â€
I certainly didn’t expect this type of overarching conflict to be introduced so early on, but now I’m sure this will be a major focus to a lot of what happens in Catching Fire. The fact that Katniss manage to win the Games in that manner and escape punishment may seem small, but Collins really handles this well: it’s the little things, the tiny cracks in the façade, that contribute to the inevitable collapse of it all. The Capitol recognizes the power in small acts like this, so now I’m interested to see what Snow wants Katniss to do to quash this feeling in the districts.
“Do you have any idea what that would mean? How many people would die? What conditions those left would have to face? Whatever problems anyone may have with the Capitol, believe me when I say that if it released its grip on the districts for even a short time, the entire system would collapse.
Katniss rightly picks up on how bizarre it is for Snow to frame this as if he truly cares for the well being of Panem. The truth is that for many people, the system collapsing would actually be a good thing; Snow sets this up as a strawman for what he thinks is best for all.
I don’t know how I dare to say the next words, but I do. “It must be very fragile, if a handful of berries can bring it down.â€
There’s a long pause while he examines me. Then he simply says, “It is fragile, but not in the way that you suppose.â€
WHAT THE FUCK. This isn’t elaborated on, but DAMN THAT SHIT IS DEEP. I’m not joking, by the way. I love the power play here, the subtext that even Snow knows there is a weakness to his all-powerful regime.
“I didn’t mean to start any uprisings,†I tell him.
“I believe you. It doesn’t matter. Your stylist turned out to be prophetic in his wardrobe choice. Katniss Everdeen, the girl who was on fire, you have provided a spark that, left unattended, may grow to an inferno that destroys Panem,†he says.
Why was none of the dialogue in The Hunger Games this sharp? Oh, right, because everyone was busy with Murderfest 2057.
“Then just tell me what you want me to do. I’ll do it,†I say.
“If only it were that simple.â€
NOPE. DON’T LIKE THIS. Hi, dread, thanks for coming back.
“Peeta. How is the love of you life?†he asks.
“Good,†I say.
“At what point did he realize the exact degree of your indifference?†he asks, dipping his cookie in his tea.
“I’m not indifferent,†I say.
“But perhaps not as taken with the young man as you would have the country believe,†he says.
“I do,†says the president. “And I wouldn’t be here if I were the only person who had doubts. How’s the handsome cousin?â€
JESUS. Dude is ON FIRE. How intimidating did President Snow become in just a few pages? He’s not some sitting duck or inactive, ignorant leader. HE IS REGULATING.
“Speak, Miss Everdeen. Him I can easily kill off if we don’t come to a happy resolution,†he says. “You aren’t doing him a favor by disappearing into the woods with him each Sunday.â€
Well, nothing is creepier than his complete knowledge of what Katniss has been up to. It deflates her sense of purpose and, understandably, causes the fear to rise in her dramatically.
We get a brief flashback to what happened after Katniss returned to District Twelve from the Games as she explains what exactly Snow has seen in between the two of them in the woods.
She didn’t get the chance to spend much time with Gale alone for a few weeks because of all the celebrations sponsored by the Capitol and the public appearances. It wasn’t until the furor died down that she got any sort of privacy. (Can I say that I love that she fills in these details for us? I had a feeling she wouldn’t go back and explain any of this at all.)
The first thing she does when she finally has time to herself is head out to the woods, to the normal spot where her and Gale always would hang out; she waits hours for him and almost gives up hope that we won’t show.
Then I looked up and there he was, ten feet away, just watching me. Without even thinking, I jumped up and threw my arms around him, making some weird sound that combined laughing, choking, and crying.
Even my black heart can’t deny this is pretty awesome. SO THEY’RE GONNA KISS, RIGHT?
Not immediately. They fall back into a fairly normal routine for each other and Katniss believes that everything will be the same between them. That’s when he kisses her.
You would think that after all the hours I’d spent with Gale—watching him talk and laugh and frown—that I would know all there was to know about his lips.
No, I’m sorry, no. Do you guys do this with your friends? I don’t EVER. This is seriously one of the strangest sentences ever. No thank you.
Gale merely says, “I had to do that. At least once.†Then he LEAVES HER THERE TO THINK ABOUT THIS. Gale, YOU ARE RUDE. Hang around and make out with her or like do anything but leave her behind. What is wrong with you, dude?
Still, it isn’t all magic and puppies and unicorns. Gale acts like the kiss never happened at all, which is totally a mature, adult thing to do. So now Katniss is torn between two guys and everything is confusing and can we please just move on?
“I’ll convince everyone in the districts that I wasn’t defying the Capitol, that I was crazy with love,†I say.
President Snow rises and dabs his puffy lips with a napkin. “Aim higher in case you fall short.â€
OH NO.
“What do you mean? How can I aim higher?†I ask.
“Convince me,†he says. He drops the napkin and retrieves his book. I don’t watch him as he heads for the door, so I flinch when he whispers in my ear. “By the way, I know about the kiss.†Then the door clicks shut behind him.
In just one chapter, President Snow just became the worst villain in the whole series. Bravo, Collins. He lays all his cards out on the table and hides virtually nothing. Way scarier than someone making grandiose threats.
Still don’t know why he smells like blood and roses, though.
ohhhh a new one! creepy snow is creepy
If you thought he was creepy here, you should read the 3rd book.
SPOILERS!!
After Snow gets captured in the third book, he has this strange, all-knowing presence even though he knows he's going to die. He scared the shit out of me when I read it.
My guess is he just smells like blood. The roses are to cover it up.
I agree
In that case, WHY DOES HE SMELL LIKE BLOOD? It's incredibly creepy, and gives a weird, ominous feeling to the whole scene, almost as if I can smell him,while reading. Collins isn't the most subtle of writers, but continually repeating how creepy this character smells, to the point where the reader can almost smell it? That's effective.
Bahhh, my computer is dead, so I'm commenting only when I can.
But YES this chapter was freaky and OMG I am scared of President Snow.
Also, I hope everyone had lovely holidays.
I'll be reading and catching up whenever I can, but not much commenting, I'm afraid. <3
Are we going to get a review of Chapter 3 today too, since we were supposed to get the review of Chapter 2 yesterday?
Love your nickname.
I didn't like that sentence with the snake either. When I first read it, it felt like president Snow had taken the lid of a pot and had found a snake there. I had to re-read it twice before understanding it.
President snow looks like quite the bad guy right now, but he not the "I will make your life hell" type of bad guy. He just seemed like someone doing his job as the evil president (is he even elected?) who wants to keep power.
Also, I have no idea what blood smells like, so I was a bit lost when Katniss mentioned what Snow smelled like.
This is my last day of commenting for a while, tomorrow morning at 5, I'll be leaving for Nicaragua on a humanitarian trip for 3 weeks. My only regret is that I'll miss out half of Mark's reactions on Doctor Who and on Catching Fire 🙂 . See you later guys!
He's not elected. Panem is run by a dictatorship.
Also: Blood smells kind of metallic, like copper.
Yeah, I don't think he's elected either. I get a very Stalin-y feeling from him for some reason. By the way, I think it's really cool that you're going to Nicaragua. I hope that the trip goes well.
But maybe he is elected but by Capitol people, after all, the rest of Panem aren't really "educated". It's just that I don't imagine district 12 voting and he still has the title "President". It quite bothered me.
Thank you! It's my first trip ever and I don't know what to expect, but I'm sure it's going to be fun!
Yay! Hope you had a happy holiday!
All I know is what I'm reading here in your review, but President Snow is creepy. I have no idea how far the book will take this "potential rebellion in the districts" thing, but I like it.
Awkward love triangle, not so much…
ahhhh! so amazingly creepy! chills!
I have not read the book yet so Idk but maybe he smells like blood because he is a reanimated zombie.
I always thought it was implied Snow smelled like blood because he was a cannibal (how creepy is that thought)- and no this wasn't stated this was just how I envisioned him. I can't remember if the blood smell is explained later but to me it just brought on this super eerie picture of this gross man.
I always sort of thought it was a weird Capitol thing – like, they have all the crazy body mods, maybe they have one that can make you perpetually smell like a certain fragrance. And Snow wanted to smell like blood, because he's fucked up and creepy.
If I remember correctly, they DO explain the smell … in the 3rd book. I don't know … I always had a problem with this mental image … when I think of blood, all I think think of is kind of a coppery smell. So, I'm thinking … he smells kind of metalic? A coppery smell overshadowed by the smell of roses? I don't know … I guess I haven't been around blood enough to really associate a strong smell with it … so this particular part of the story was lost on me.
Personally, I thought of him having these torture chambers or something, and that he got the blood smell there. It's like a stench that will never leave him. I hope that made sense.
someone mentioned in a previous post that they thought the romance worked because it was viewed from a political pov not a romantic one. I think Collins works in the Gale kiss news in this chapter without allowing you to really think about it in much of a romantic/love triangle-y sense b/c Snow is IN THE ROOM! Feelings are not no.1, acting smart to protect lives is.
I spent a long time trying to imaging the mixture of blood and roses. Soooo creepy.
Wow, he acts benevolent, then threatening, and ultimately creepy…. like Santa. O_O
hahaha wait WHAT
A+, would lol again.
Is he Robot Santa ruining Xmas?!?!?! *huge grins*
Now that you mention it, isn't Santa the original Bed Intruder.
1) He sees you when you're sleeping.
2) He knows when you're awake.
3) He's sliding down yo chimney snatchin yo cookies up
OMG, Snow is the Santa of the future?
Is it awful that ever since the Twilight Debacle I picture Santa as an elderly Deadward? OMG gize Shmeyer ate Christmas! D:
So he's a rapist, then.
I want you to know that I was reading this review/these comments at work a few hours ago, and when I read "he's sliding down yo chimney snatchin' yo cookies up" I laughed so hard I spit. I couldn't comment then, because of being at work and whatnot, but the minute I got home I had to come back and just tell you that. So thank you for giving me something to laugh about at work!! 😀
"Then he LEAVES HER THERE TO THINK ABOUT THIS. Gale, YOU ARE RUDE. Hang around and make out with her or like do anything but leave her behind. What is wrong with you, dude?"
Hahaha. I love your indignation about this kiss! I agree that was a weird bit, but I totally have a crush on Gale and would like to kiss him myself, so.
ALSO THE BLOOD SMELL IS BECAUSE PRESIDENT SNOW IS TOTES A VAMPIRE, JSYK. Now I want to make sparkly vampire Snow fan art.
OMIGOD … I smell a cross-over fan fic coming!
I glanced up towards the cafeteria door at the imposing figure coming in. He walked with his head down staring at the tile floors. "Who's that?" I asked Jessica. With a toss of her blonde hair she said, "Snow … he's with THEM …" and with that, she pointed to the table full of sparkly freaks across the room. "But don't waste your time, Bella … apparently none of us are good enough for HIM." Lauren nodded her head in agreement as she added, "Plus he kinda stinks like blood … I think maybe he's on his period."
If you do, please post it here lol
Okay, I couldn't find a good sparkle effect, but here is Vampire Snow.
<img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_3lVOb8wvDlE/TRlZpnwJT9I/AAAAAAAAA1Q/XRv-schk3X0/ray-wise.jpg">
NO IT IS BECAUSE HE EATS BABIES FOR BREAKFAST.
OM NOM NOM BABIES ARE PART OF A NUTRITIOUS BREAKFAST.
DUH WHY DIDN'T I POST THIS.
<img src="http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ldn48dwv1D1qze487o1_400.jpg">
Snow's line "I know about the kiss" sent shivers down my spine … because it raised the question … how are they monitoring her? Is it electronic monitoring? Are there cameras or mics set up? Is there a mole in the village? Did they give her an implant at some point? I mean, they are out hunting in the woods, it SHOULD have been a relatively private moment. So, if they know about that, does she assume they know her every move?
I thought "I know about the kiss" was totally cheesy actually. The rest of the scene with Snow was creepy and scary, but that line threw me out of it. I guess the idea of the head of government trying to intimidate a 16 year old with the fact that some guy kissed her is very silly to me.
i kind of felt the same way. i get that it's meant to say, "btw i am a total badass and just in case you were wondering, i DO know everything", but that line felt kind of… manufactured i guess. just because katniss is like "i wonder if he knows about the kiss" and then he's like "i know about the kiss". maybe if collins had retroactively discussed the kiss at that point, instead of having katniss reminisce about it right beforeahnd, or something?
although, i don't think snow is trying to intimidate her because of the fact that someone kissed her. he's just trying to intimidate her with the fact that he knows things that she thinks nobody knows about. i like what other people have said about the romance – that it is political. the romance itself is incidental. it only happend to help katniss survive, and now another "romance" (is that even the right word?) is being used against her to blackmail her. also, it makes sense to me that he's using that to intimidate her, because that is supposed to be private. it's not like snow was like, "OMG katniss so i saw that you kissed him and i'm like totally going to tell LOL". it's just that this is information that he can use against her, and it makes her extremely uncomfortable because a) its personal and b) it's unexpected.
so i guess my point is that…i just didin't like the way collins decided to reveal that snow knows about the kiss. the way snow said it was lame….but i get why he is using it against her.
Haha. "I'm going to tell everyone at school that Gale is your BOOOOYFRIEEEEND!"
There are invisible nanocameras or whatever in the Games, so there could be cameras all over the woods.
PRESIDENT SNOW IS TERRIFYING. Y'ALL.
I love this chapter. The tension between Katniss and Snow, and the frankness of the conversation is just really brilliant.
And, although I'm not a fan of love triangles, in general. I can't hate it here. Because it's not about some bullshit lovey dovey stuff. It goes so much deeper than that. The fandom likes to make the love triangle more of a love thing than it is. What it really is, is a further expression of the the Capitol's power and level of control. It's not really about whether Katniss loves Peeta or Gale more. It's about how Katniss doesn't get a choice. Her feelings don't matter. She can't even sort them out because she can't tell what is real vs what she's been manipulated into by the Capitol.
About the blood and roses, be patient, Mark. Be patient… D:
Didn't read his
Didn't read his
No you didn't read his
Spoiler Guide
(You don't have to spoil nobody)
God, Snow freaks me out. He is really really really creepy. The smell of blood thing was really horrible, because in my mind the only thing that can explain it is and mental image of him been a cannibal and EATING PEOPLE AND SHIT, which I DO NOT APPRECIATE THANK YOU VERY MUCH. But the thing I liked the most is the way Collins portrays the image this powerful man, as someone cold and straight to the point, that acknowledge the fails of his own political devises but not enough to actually change them or lead the people to something that is actually better for THEM. That was good, I dig it. The fact he just says the Gamemaker is dead, as in nothing happened just brings the creep back.
And the love triangle, it's incredibly awkward for me. It's just is, Sorry.
At first I thought he drank the blood of dead tributes… o.0
That is like the awesomest guess ever. ever.
I thought the same thing too! He seems creepy enough to do that.
yes and that's why the hunger games excist- because snow wants bloooooood.
(I have not read the books, obviously.)
OH GOD that would be terrifying but also amazing (in a terrifying way)
That's what I thought as well. He seemed like a sick enough bastard to do it.
Yay! I was so happy to see this up today! I kept checking for it all day yesterday. Now I'll go read chapter 3 on my beautiful kindle! *happy dance*
I know you did not like the part where Katniss does not acknowledge that there was any part of rebellion in her act with the berries. But I think it goes with what we know about her. She totally attempts to shut down thoughts and feelings she sees as either dangerous or unnecessary. We see her suppress her feelings in relation to romantic feelings and also with feelings of rebellion with the capitol. It doesn't mean they are not truly there. She just tries to deny them. Romance and rebellious feelings are dangerous and useless to her in her opinion from her terribly oppressed and partly defeated state of mind.
So with what we know I see it right in line with Katniss' character that she is trying to now deny the real feelings of rebellion that were partly responsible for the berry trick. They were there at the time but they are dangerous to her, in her mind. Therefore she is trying to deny those feelings to herself especially since it is very dangerous to her.
Katniss is such a self repressed character. But I think I see the feelings beginning to rise to the surface in spite of herself. It will be interesting to see how it develops.
I really liked this chapter with the one exception of the sentence about Gale's lips. That sentence was pretty darn awkward.
This chapter creeped me out. Bravo, Collins, bravo.
After I read the smell of blood coming from his breath my mind went for a different explanation.
What if he’s sick? You know, tuberculosis, lung cancer or something completely new for the Panem that could make you cough up blood. If he’s sick, could that make the Panem fragile in a different way? Maybe that’s what he thinks, he thinks himself irreplaceable in the Panem estructure.
IDK I’m just thinking out loud, I haven’t read past chapter 2 yet.
Ooooooooooo! What if he's sick and is secretly grooming Katniss to be his evil replacement dictator? He will twist her mind and her morals until she is MechaEvilKatnissOfDooooooooooommmmm!
Time to sing the doom song Gir!
This chapter made me hate President Snow with a passion. A fiery fiery passion.
I hate Snow. He doesn't creep me out, he makes me really angry…although that said, I respond very angrily to people who creep me out. HOW DARE YOU CREEP ME OUT! Yeah.
I just hate how cold and brutal and cruel he is in the way he speaks, moves, makes Katniss feel. I don't read any humanity in him, or any empathy, and he makes me feel cold and furious and if I was Katniss…I'd have been dead a long time ago, but if I'd somehow made it I would have fucked that up right then by kneeing Snow in the bollocks to make him show some human reflex.
The thing about this chapter I like is that we get such a detailed character picture of President Snow. I can imagine him in my living room, chilling as if he owned the place. I can see him delivering all this dialogue. I shiver at the vague hints of threats and violence he promises if Katniss fails. He feels like the most complete character we've met in a while. And the part that causes the most creepiness is his knowledge of the kiss. Him knowing that they weren't really cousins I can accept as entirely plausible, but not being able to have a kiss in private is just so invasive.
Of course Katniss told us about what happened in the last 6 months! She loves her flashbacks, but this one makes so much more sense than dandelion cookies.
And what does Snow mean about the fragility of Panem?! So vague, so intriguing. Collins, I'm liking the progress we're seeing here. Well done.
Um, yeah. The blood thing is creepy. Why does he smell like blood?
Oh snap! He knows everything. It's like in the arena. They have all this stuff on camera to show to the districts, but no one ever sees the cameras . . . :/
Perhaps he wears a copper bracelet. That would account for the smell of blood. My sister used to wear one and the smell made me sick.
I have a strange feeling we will know about the blood soon.
I think he's a cannibal or some shit D:
Trufax, women used to do a similar thing as Snow back when TB was a problem. A red rose on their hankie to cover up the blood they'd cough up. Dunno if they scented themselves with real roses though. /OT
ooh, interesting.
Must .Keep.Mouth.Shut!
I think you and I are on the same boat here, haha. I am sooooo tempted!! SO UNPREPARED!
To keep the blood in? :/
The list of who causes dread for me in book series
Umbridge > Snow > Voldermort.
for me it's Snow>Voldemort>Umbridge
Snow is just so blunt that it's scary.
I disagree. Umbridge would also be my top. I mean… that woman is basically Snow disguised under pink crochet and a girlish giggle.
dude, Umbridge freaks me the hell out. At least Snow's a bit styling with his evil wicked ways.
I agree. I hate Umbridge more than either of the other two. Granted, I'm only up to Chapter 3 in Catching Fire. I think my thing with Umbridge is that she doesn't present herself as a villain. Whereas with Snow and Voldemort, they are both so blunt in their evilness. At least you know where you stand with them.
For me it's Umbridge, Voldemort, Snow but they are all pretty awful.
Is it wierd that I always sort of saw Snow as the unholy love child of Voldemort and Umbridge? Not sure what that says about my brain…But for me it's Voldemort>Snow>Umbridge. Snow's like a creepy in between version of those two villians and the result is creepy, creepy, creepy.
Oh no, I totally see it, which is why Snow is so fucking creepy to me. In my head he's like…the build of Umbridge but with Voldermort's face.
And another thing. I guess it's kind of ironic how Katniss was being monitored every single second she was in the arena, and now she's being monitored when she thinks she is finally safe. This disturbs me.
I am legitimately freaked out by President Snow now. I may have nightmares.
Also, I figured he smelled like blood because (and I'm a horrible person for thinking this) he murdered Prim or something. I was totally preparing myself for that possibility over Christmas.
Merry Christmas to me.
So, even if her intent wasn’t to fully be rebellious, she seemed to acknowledge that it was partially.
I think Katniss makes a distinction in her mind between being rebellious and being Rebellious. Saying, hey, you don't own me, Capitol, is different from saying, BURN IT DOWN BURN IT ALL DOWN.
This isn’t elaborated on, but DAMN THAT SHIT IS DEEP. I’m not joking, by the way. I love the power play here, the subtext that even Snow knows there is a weakness to his all-powerful regime.
This is a pretty great scene.
In just one chapter, President Snow just became the worst villain in the whole series. Bravo, Collins. He lays all his cards out on the table and hides virtually nothing. Way scarier than someone making grandiose threats.
Like I said, great scene! And why I laughed out loud when you thought Snow wouldn't appear until the end of this book.
Yeah, I think what she meant there was that while SHE may have been rebelling against the rules of the Games, she didn't mean to spark an uprising anywhere else.
Snow is scary. But I like him better than Katniss.
WHY DO I NOT LIKE THE MAIN CHARACTER?!
Because she's a strong female character who can't be fitted into the limited roles of either, sweet girly girl or hot action girl? because she's a fully developped three dimensional character rather than a stereotype?
Because she isn't all lovey dovey, on top of her emotions and is instead someone who holds her emotions close to herself to such a point that she might not even realize them herself, kinda like a lot of typical male heroes?
One of the things I love about Collins is her habit of reversing gender roles.
Katniss=hero
Peeta=sweet girl next door
Gale=hot action girl
And she does all this without turning Katniss into a man-girl, or taking away any of Gale or Peeta's masculinity.
Could this partly be why I'm a huge Katpee shipper?
Very nice.
This is why I love Katniss, especially in this second book so far. She acts like a regular person.
I really don't like this implication. The way you said it makes it sound like the only reason Hotaru-hime doesn't like Kat is because she's female, and that really is very presumptuous. I don't particularly enjoy Katniss, but it's nothing to do with her gender. I just don't particularly find her that engaging.
I get what you're saying, that some people indeed will judge a female protagonist more harshly just because of her gender, but to insinuate that anyone who doesn't like Katniss is a sexist jerk isn't right.
Yes. That is exactly it. Nobody could ever possibly hate a female character for reasons other than her gender. There is no such thing as a female main character who's badly written, or uninteresting, or just *gasp* not to everyone's taste.
Actually I didn't say they hated her for her gender. I said he might hate her because she doesn't fit the general gender stereo type. And badly written, or uninteresting… I have to say that's a matter of personal taste, personally I disagree with that notion.
Actually I didn't say they hated her for her gender. I said he might hate her because she doesn't fit the general gender stereo type.
But you imply that the exact same traits would be acceptable in a male character, therefore you are saying that the only reason people don't like Katniss is because she's female.
And badly written, or uninteresting… I have to say that's a matter of personal taste, personally I disagree with that notion.
And so you have decided to dismiss everyone else's personal taste in favor of saying that anyone who disagrees with you is sexist?
Thank you for this, Tabbyclaw.
Wait a minute! Does this mean that Peeta is the Betty to Gale's Veronica?
no idea, I've never read Archie, the fact that I even recognize the names is all due to a Punisher meets Archie comic I once saw posted on scans_daily;-)
the way he said "By the way, I know about the kiss." in the very end, sent chills down my back.
Snow is definitely creep, and scary.
It is so so so so creepy. 🙁
To me it was creepier that he whispered it in her ear.
Snow: Creepiest guy ever? y/y
I think Gale's nerve was gone by the end of the kiss, since she didn't really do/say anything either way. And ignoring it, well, that's a little immature. At least he's not a Gary Sue who can do no wrong. Wish Katniss would have called him out on it.
And Snow, how creepy is he? He'll always be #1 in my HG hate list. Here's a fire Snow. Go melt before you screw up any more lives.
Hee hee, melt. Now I'm imagining Snow going "I'M MEEEELTIIIING!" like the Wicked Witch of the West.
I picture President snow as that big-lipped scarecrow guy from Batman Begins.
Crap. I've returned my copy of this book and have no recollection of what happens in what chapter. So now I just have to hope that you mention all the things I want to talk about, otherwise I won't be able to comment on them.
I agree about President Snow being creepy. There's something about brutally honest villains that just makes them so much scarier and more dangerous. He's not worried about Katniss going against his desire. He just lays the consequences out for her and trusts it will be enough to keep her in line. ::shudder:: I do think it belies a certain confidence in his own power, even as he admits to the fragility of it.
Theory: President Snow has a busted sense of smell, and didn't notice that the new perfume he had created actually smells really, really creepy. No one dared to tell him, so now he smells like blood and roses, while thinking that he smells like meadows and sunshine.
Best theory ever.
Snow gives me the jibblies. And I still don't get why Gale didn't kiss Katniss way back before she left for the Games. Did he have a why, Katniss, you're a girl! moment while she was gone?
Is it terrible that I would kinda love it if Peeta were the one who ratted out their kiss?
I get the impression that Gale always had some kind of feelings for Katniss, and seeing her get all lovey with Peeta just made him kick himself for never doing anything about it. That's pure speculation though.
That would definitely make sense but I don't know if I buy it. Are all the boys in Panem not motivated to do anything about their romantic feelings? I mean, I wouldn't expect Gale to be all touchy-feely (it wouldn't make sense for "I'll shoot your eye out" Katniss to be best buds with Stereotypical Horny Teenage Boy), but isn't there some kind of happy medium? I could believe it with Peeta because they never interacted but I don't so much with Gale. Probably because I don't know enough about his character yet.
I've only read these first two chapters, so nothing I say is a spoiler.
I was really hoping that we wouldn't have a return to the fake romance between Peeta and Katniss. It looks as if they are going to have to do the same thing again, except this time Peeta will know that Katniss is pretending. I really wish there was something more compelling out there for the future of this book.
I was really glad to see that a lot of people saw through the fake romance. But I hope that Gale doesn't get killed. I would like that romance to have a fair chance to develop.
It will be interesting to see what is so fragile about the system they are propping up.
“that I would know all there was to know about his lips.”
And here I am having flash backed to the creepy weird shit that was said in Twilight. I feel all icky now.
Also Snow smells of blood and roses and its the most awesome villain smell ever.
I assumed that the rose is at least partially made out of Seneca Crane's blood, though that's probably just because Katniss notices the scent more after they sit down and talk about Crane's death (after the fourth or fifth mention that Snow is totally a snake). I feel like I have to be cryptic about this (helped by the fact that this is the only image I have for this show), but Snow with the weird rose on his lapel made me think of this:
<img src="http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd483/Lossarnach7/UtenaBlackRose.jpg">
I quite like the possibility that the Capitol has been maintaining the Meadow/woods area the entire time, for the express purpose of letting people use it illegally. It has a nice, Big Brother-ly, Matrix-y feel to it. Giving them an area to hunt/forage satisfies their need for food, making it slightly dangerous probably makes it seem like a haven from government interference and censorship, and making it illegal makes it seem rebellious or even revolutionary, all without really affecting the government at all. A system expertly tooled so that even acts of outright defiance only serve to strengthen it. Not sure if that was actually Suzanne Collins's intent, but it's a nice thought.
AND THEN KATNISS PULLS A SWORD OUT OF PEETA???? Sorry, I just had to comment, since Utena is my favorite show about adolescence, ever.
God President Snow is just all the worst things. There are not enough fires for him.
I really wish there wasn't a love triangle. But at least the characters are likeable as opposed to other popular YA love triangles (sadly, that doesn't actually narrow it down much these days in that genre). Also, thank you for not passive-agressively-not-saying-what-we-mean-but-its-so-obvious-but-we-hate-our-readers-so-lets-stretch-this-out-uncomfortably-like-this-hyphen-gag.
Alan Rickman absolutely needs to be President Snow. Yes yes yes times infinity.
Rickman would be great but…. My President Snow has always been John Slattery. And I LOVE ALAN RICKMAN, but I think Snow is too vain to allow himself to grow old. Plus, I think the role is almost too one note to waste a treasure like Rickman on, but I've always been a person who allows for their icons to do whatever they need to do to make money. At any rate, think about it. Slattery is great at those charismatic, but ultimately creepy roles.
I almost feel like Alan Rickman's brand of scary-creepy is the wrong brand of scary-creepy for President Snow. It works for Snape, but I just can't see him as Snow.
Christopher Walken, on the other hand? HOLY MOTHER OF GOD AUGH
This is all bogus, because, as we learned in Twilight, HUMANS CAN’T SMELL BLOOD.
Hahaha I’m sorry, I couldn’t resist.
Anyways, this chapter is extremely chilling and powerful and I love how all they really do is sit there and talk but it is so intense. One thing Collins is really good at is putting the reader in a state of total suspense and dread.
I also like the dialogue in this chapter a lot because 1) I really enjoy wit in any form, including this creepy moment, and 2) I feel like this conversation just packs a huge punch and sets the mood of the whole book to be “oh noes D:”
– “…like taking the lid off a pot and finding a fanged viper instead of stew.” Please refrain from these types of analogies. Please.
– “He attends celebrations in the Capitol. Period.” That was, comma, melodramatic and comma, unnecessary. Period.
– “Will always despise me.” Can we have a little more fluidity with our narration please? This works when there's action going on, but unless Snow pulls out a chainsaw, I don't see the need for this.
– “In fact, I treat him as if he's a real snake…” also like a hospital.
– “I'm expecting snake lips…” WE GET IT. HE IS A SNAKE. Lord Voldermort was less snakelike than Snow apparently.
– Now this is some Grade “A” villain talk, it's subtle, and it gets the point across without being overly dramatic. I approve.
– “And uprisings have been known to lead to revolution.” No shit. I know Kat can be slow on the uptake, but now you're being patronizing.
– “Katniss Everdeen, the girl who was on fire…” I though we were done with that! It is still a terrible slogan Mr. Freezepop, so just let it die.
– “How is the love of your life?” I just had a flashback to “The Room” and now I can't imagine President Sleet here as anyone besides Tommy Wiseau. So how is your sex life?
– “At what point did he realize the exact degree of your indifference?” Ooh, Kat, you want some ice for that burn?
– “You aren't doing him a favor by disappearing into the woods with him each Sunday.” Oh shit, President fudgicle is in the know apparently.
– FLASHBACK TIEM
– “…could as easily entrap me.” I don't think this is what Collins is trying for, but this wording makes it sound like Gale if rape-kissing her like Jacob in Eclipse. Squick.
– And so, the Love Triangle was born.
– “Whatever I pretended, I could never look at his lips in quite the same way.” Pfffft.
– So President Ice Cube is one creepy motherfucker, snake comparisons notwithstanding.
Overall, I like President Frozen Precipitation as a villain. He's definitely shown he's in charge, and he is clear enough that he could completely wreck Katniss' shit if he needs to, but he's not some over-the-top cartoon villain who makes grandiose speeches and acts like he's all powerful. He acknowledges that his power is dependent on the people's complacency, and he seems to actually believe the system is for the best rather than just being "Evil." It's the kind of depth you usually don't get in YA lit, and I'm glad Collins went with it.
Why yes, I am purposefully avoiding the love triangle nonsense.
Grade: "B"
MR FREEZEPOP. Omg ilu 4eva
Your notes make me happy. JSYK.
ICE CUBE FOR PRESIDENT.
<img src="http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/media/sites/tampabay.com.blogs.media/files/images/typepad-legacy-files/52545.6a00d83451b05569e20134828f486a970c-pi.jpg">
So I'm not actually reading the series because I couldn't get a hold of them but I am reading the reviews because it's too interesting not to! Guess I spoiled the series for myself. Oh well.
I think it's interesting that so many people's first explanation for the smell of blood is that he's a cannibal! Makes sense, in a way. That's a creepy activity, he's a creepy bloke.
My thought was a little tamer, though. I thought maybe he eats animal meat but he insists on butchering it himself? I don't know, I just thought that butchers tend to smell like blood. And I agree with the opinion that the rose smell is probably to cover up the blood smell.
Or maybe he has a secret torture chamber for insurrectionists.
"That's a creepy activity, he's a creepy bloke."
First thought that came into my head: "It's a creepy shop, he's a creepy bloke" (HP 6, movie).
Ha, that's what I was trying to reference. The phrase just popped into my head.
Good I’m not the only one that thought of that
Mainly because Ronald weasley totaly narates my life
I don't watch my friends' lips unless I really wanna kiss them. Like really badly. BLASTED ROMANTICISM.
Exactly, and you always look at their lips in a "oh, how great it would feel if they were on me" sort of way before AND after kissing them.
OR, if they really need to use some lip gloss, or it got busted, or any other extremely gross situation, but I am never casually staring at my friends lips thinking that I know everything about them. Unless I want to make out with them.
Or if they have some bits of food there that they missed while eating.
You know who I do notice watching people's lips all the time? Adam Baldwin. I love the man to death, actingwise, but it's a weird little tic and I can't un-notice it now.
Why do so few people get the reason for the love triangle? Yes it's cliche. But there is a reason for it. It's all about Katniss, her freewill, her emotions. She's a traumatized, constantly watched 16 year old girl, it's not like she has the best circumstances for emotional growth which will probably always be stunted. It's not about Team Gale, or Team Peeta, and quite frankly I was shocked when found out there were teams. It's about how Katniss goes through her emotions while not being allowed to show she has a certain feelings that the Capitol doesn't want.
And I find it odd that when there were action scenes in the previous book, people wanted a break. When we got that, people complained it was too boring.
I also fail to realize why so many people hate Katniss. Could someone elaborate on this?
Ha! You wrote this comment for me. I remember the first time I Google searched The Hunger Games to see when Mockingjay was coming out, being all shocked at how huge the fandom was and then going "What the hell is all this Team bullshit?? NOT THE POINT, GUYS."
I also love Katniss to bits. It hurts my heart when people hate on her. She is her own woman! (Or as much as she can be without getting her family killed.)
I personally hate Katniss because she has the emotional depth of a teaspoon.
President Snow = Big Brother = Creepy as shit.
Collins really doesn't waste any time at all in this one, I think I made it through Chapter 1 all nice and calmly, which served as a nice breather, and then it was pretty much a spree of tearing through all the pages because OMG. Collins is sadistic. This is my new theory.
Also, it was his line about the girl on fire creating a spark that formulated my theory on the title. Spark = fire? I dunno. There was so much reference made about being the Girl on Fire in the first book that I didn't really think much about the title of the second. It seemed to make sense to me without thinking about it, but that line in Chapter 2 started me thinking about it more.
snow is so. damn. creepy. *shudders*
I think he's called a President just because Panem was once the United States. I don't think they would even give the districts the chance to vote. Maybe the people in the Capitol get to vote (to maintain the illusion of some sort of democracy), but it's either rigged or all the candidates are puppets and basically the same, anyways.
Leaders in dictatorships are also called presidents. Or presidents in countries where there are elections for show only, like in Russia, they used to have elections, but you could only vote for members of the same party.
I got this book and finished it on Christmas Day, and I love it so much, I had nightmares about Snow. I'm not going to say any more because I'm terrified I'm going to spoil it. -general statement of your unpreparedness-
lolz Catnip trying to act all innocent
<img src="http://i963.photobucket.com/albums/ae114/KimberlyKuchiki_23/tumblr_l1nii6J0qi1qalvfe.gif" border="0">
yeah OKAY YOU KEEP THINKING THAT
<img src="http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s49/Mr_Muggles/GIFS/nqe2de.gif" border="0">
but Gale…Y U GOTTA BE LIKE DAT? Y U MAKE DIS SO HARD FOR KATPEE?? Y U TRY??
<img src="http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l424/Curls016/GIFs/Luna.gif" border="0">
JUST DEAL WITH IT GALE
and SNOW. Y U GOTTA BE SO EVIL? Y U MAKE KATNISS SCARED? Y U DO DAT?
<img src="http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg274/xLuffin_deppx/Harry%20P%20x/Harry%20Potter%20GIF/Harry-Voldy.gif" border="0">
SLAP U SNOW
<img src="http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s49/Mr_Muggles/GIFS/Harry-Umbridge-slap-GIF.gif" border="0">
THIS IS A WORK OF ART.
frame this shit in a museum
SOMEBODY SHOULD START A FUCKING GIF MUSEUM THEN
FUCK. FUCK. that is such a good idea.
WHY DOES THIS NOT EXIST?!?
Can I just say:
Even the thought of smelling blood and roses at the same time makes me dry-heave.
I have nothing else to say about the book right now, because I can't get past that. Ugh.
<img src="http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o388/bananamayhem/pale.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket">
Snow is absolutely fantastic. I was looking forward to you reading this chapter. I think it remains one of my favourites in the whole series.
I am the only one who will think of this, but whenever anyone mentions that Snow smells like blood and roses, I think of Margaret Atwood's amazing novel Oryx & Crake where there's a Hunger Games-y video game called Blood and Roses.
So, President Snow is basically Vetinari.
AWESOME.
SNOW :((((((((
TEARS FOREVER
So once I got to the second chapter I realized there was no WAY I was going to be able to hold out on you, Mark. And I didn't. I finished the book ages ago. But I wrote comments as I went along so that you could hear about my own thoughts at that point and my reviews could contain things other than YOU ARE NOT PREPARED (you're not).
Here we go:
"SAFVNEAGFHAJGHVELAGNREALOI WHY IS THE GOVERNMENT SO FUCKED UP WHAT IS GOING ON HERE.
Okay, now that I've got that out of my system, does anyone else kinda feel like "Snow" doesn't seem an appropriate name for the superevil president? I get that snow is cold and all, just like him, but when I think of snow I generally think of fluffiness and Christmas and snow days. Blizzards aren't really the first thing to come to mind (on the other hand, "President Blizzard" would be a ridiculous name). Maybe it's supposed to show how the Capitol makes itself seem beautiful and cheery but it can be really destructive, but the Capitol seems to be generally quite blunt and straightforward about their intimidation tactics. So . . . what gives?
Also, I'm just gonna start my own conspiracy theory here and say that I SUSPECT GALE of telling Snow all of Katniss' secrets. I mean, it's totally plausible that the government just has tiny cameras everywhere, but I'm not ruling out my theory anytime soon. It's not like Collins is likely to wimp out on making everything awful. Plus Katniss could choose Gale and then find out about his true motives and be all FUCK YOU BITCH.
Anyway. TIME TO READ MOAR."
I also thought I'd mention:
Can I say that I love that she fills in these details for us? I had a feeling she wouldn’t go back and explain any of this at all.
Psh, Mark, half the last book was made up of flashbacks. You're really surprised by this?
I just had the impression that Snow was in that time of the month and he had a very heavy flow and forgot to change his tampons. Even if doesn't make any sense as he's a… he.
I'm new to this site and I love it! This weekend I read the Harry Potter, the awful Twilight series and now the Hunger Games with Mark. I think you are great. Well now on to Chapter 2 of Catching Fire. President Snow is creepy, creepy and I want him to die. I can't wait to Chapter 3 review. I'm so glad I found this site.
Ditto!
Man, Collins really does set Snow up to be a great villain, doesn't she? He smells like blood and roses? He makes threats he is completely capable of making good on? And he knows what's up? PEES SELF.
So, apparently I can no longer do the things I used to do. Before I discovered "Mark Reads," I spent my breaks reading or playing video games. Now all of my free-time is spent either re-reading HG, HP, or your reviews. I've already re-read "Catching Fire" twice, so now I'm re-reading the Twilight reviews. What am I becoming?
You are becoming one of us, dear.
A fangirl.
You are becoming a fangirl.
This book is starting off with a bang, already introducing us to the major villain! It could be because I've been reading a lot of political dramas lately, but President Snow does not seem clever enough to impress me yet. In response, I sat down and worked out my own plan for discrediting Katniss. I'll just say I hope "pretend you're in love or I'll kill your *cousins*" does not showcase the entirety of his manipulative ability.
I like that he addresses the mistake of letting Katpee live at the end of the Games. I whined a little about that last book, and his explanation basically matches what us commenters thought might be the case (Gamemakers panicked and made a wrong snap decision).
When I read that he smelled like blood and roses, the first thing that came to mind was that he's bleeding somewhere and……..something to do with roses? He eats roses? This is only because I can't foresee a plot twist where Snow drinks blood. I mean, what would that add to the story? Where would Collins go with that? It it just to make him creepy? But then, by the same logic, why the roses? SO MANY QUESTIONS.
Maybe Snow drinks blood because he's pregnant with a half-vampire baby? And he'll name it Katpee?
Gah, I saw this picture of Kyle McLaughlan someone posted and now all I can think about is him as Snow. D: Bleh. Anyway, the whole Gale kissing Katniss seemed to be out of spite more than anything else to me. And that fact that Snow knew about it was just like, "WHAT?!" o.o
PRESIDENT SNOW IS A VAMPIRE. Who likes roses. I don’t know, I couldn’t think of any other explanation. Don’t judge me.
I love the detail of her sitting in the chair and only her toes touch the ground… Because in the end this story is about a 16-yr old girl.
I haven’t read the books, so no spoiling. I had an idea that president Snow smells like blood because they’re injecting something in him made from blood product? Maybe some material like collagen (but made from human tissue) for his lips. I’
guessing to treat some condition, not to make him attractive. Or maybe it’s some strengthening tonic that gives him some form of longevity or immortality as long as he drinks it.
"Or maybe it's some strengthening tonic that gives him some form of longevity or immortality as long as he drinks it."
Like Voldemort and the unicorn blood D:
“The truth is that for many people, the system collapsing would actually be a good thing”.
I hope they develop this further. How is Snow able to have such a stronghold? The system reminds me of Stalin. Each district sends their produce to the Capitol and the Capitol redistributes, so they are all dependent and can’t survive on their own even if they could successfully break away. Except, under Stalin, during his time, most people were brainwashed into revering him. Here, people in districts, and even in the Capitol are frightened of him, he’s certainly not loved. Also, some, like Gale, express some revolutionary ideas but we don’t get any idea of who the alternative leadership in distric 12 may be, whether most people would support a rebellion, or are too scared of getting destroyed or of succeeding, but then dying from having supplies cut off. Then there are the other districts – why do they not communicate? I understand they are restricted by the capitol, but there must be ways. Under Stalin,
many of the republics made to be neighbours, were warring for years, decreasing their chances of banding against Russia. Here, we don’t find out how the divisions were formed. We just know they are competitive and some are more wealthy. We don’t get a sense of any reason not to try and form relationship with other districts.
“NOPE. DON’T LIKE THIS. Hi, dread, thanks for coming back.”
Thank you FOR YOUR WONDERFUL WORDS. Seriously, I adore your quirky diction.
President Snow isn’t exactly Voldemort, but he is the most frightening character in this series fo shoe. Plus, who has blood on their breath? My first though was “oh noes, please don’t be a vampire. First Cedric, the Edward, now President Snow? Crap!” Then it occured to me that I was reading a distopian novel, not a fantasy novel. Then I was happy again. 🙂
When this book was released Collins read this chapter for NPR…creepiest chapter ever to promo a book for, amirite?!?! Anyway, it's great to hear Collins reading both Katniss and Snow, it gives a little more insight into how Collins understands these characters and their manner. I highly recommend it.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?stor…