Mark Reads ‘Mockingjay’: Chapter 14

In the fourteenth chapter of Mockingjay, we spend time with Katniss as she does what she can to help around District 2. There, we find out just what lengths some people are willing to go to win the rebellion. Intrigued? Then it’s time for Mark to read Mockingjay.

I’m very satisfied with this chapter because it’s one gigantic info dump. I complained towards the beginning of Catching Fire that Collins rushed through the Victory Tour and failed to give me any concrete sense about the different districts in Panem. (I do admit that, in hindsight, there was a very specific reason why Collins did this.)

I know there are many of you who love imagined worlds, so much so that you want to know everything there is to know about them. How many of you read Harry Potter and wanted to know the ins-and-outs of Gringotts, or deeply wanted a tour of the Hufflepuff common room? I just want to know everything IS THAT SO MUCH TO ASK

District 2 is a large district, as one might expect, composed of a series of villages spread across the mountains. Each was originally associated with a mine or quarry, although now, many are devoted to the housing and training of Peacekeepers. None of this would present much of a challenge, since the rebels have 13’s airpower on their side, except for one thing: At the center of the district is a virtually impenetrable mountain that houses the heart of the Capitol’s military.

I think we can all agree that District 2 is somewhere near or in the Rockies. It’s an interesting parallel to what often happens in our world: the rich and the privileged are generally living in a place that is literally higher than other people. I live in California. In Los Angeles, rich, powerful people lived in the Hollywood Hills or Beverly Hills or in the hills above Brentwood, along Mulholland Drive, at the top of the hills in Los Feliz and Baldwin Hills. Even here in the Bay Area, the hills above Berkeley and Oakland have the nicest houses. Same with in San Francisco, too. Oh, rich people.

We’ve nicknamed the mountain the Nut since I relayed Plutarch’s “tough nut to crack” comment to the weary and discouraged rebel leaders here.

Oh, man. Could you not call it that? Please? Oh well. I TRIED.

The Nut was established directly after the Dark Days, when the Capitol had lost 13 and was desperate for a new underground stronghold. They had some of their military resources situated on the outskirts of the Capitol itself—nuclear missiles, aircraft, troops—but a significant chunk of their power was now under an enemy’s control. Of course, there was no way they could hope to replicate 13, which was the work of centuries. However, in the old mines of nearby District 2, they saw opportunity. From the air, the Nut appeared to be just another mountain with a few entrances on its faces. But inside were vast cavernous spaces where slabs of stones had been cut, hauled to the surface, and transported down slippery narrow roads to make distant buildings. There was even a train system to facilitate transporting the miners from the Nut to the very center of the main town in District 2.

Well, shit. This is what they’re up against?

But on the whole, leaving the exterior of the mountain largely unchanged. A rough, rocky tangle of trees and wildlife. A natural fortress to protect them from their enemies.

I don’t even have the slightest idea how this is going to work. While District 13 had the advantage of being able to descend far into the earth, protecting itself from the Capitol’s bombs, here the Capitol has the advantage of nature. How do you get inside of a mountain with only a few heavily-guarded and established entrances? And even if you get inside, you’re at a complete disadvantage.

Collins, through Katniss, continues to elaborate on the differences found here in District 2, aside from the mountain military base. The society here directly benefitted from having more support from the Capitol. As Katniss explains it:

Just by looking at the District 2 rebels, you can tell they were decently fed and cared for in childhood. Some didend up as quarry and mine workers. Others were educated for jobs in the Nut or funneled into the ranks of Peacekeepers. Trained young and hard for combat. The Hunger Games were an opportunity for wealth and a kind of glory not seen elsewhere. Of course, the people of 2 swallowed the Capitol’s propaganda more easily than the rest of us. Embraced their ways. But for al that, at the end of the day, they were still slaves. And if that was lost on the citizens who became Peacekeepers or worked in the Nut, it was not lost on the stonecutters who formed the backbone of resistance here.

It was never some big ~mystery~ to me why District 2 seemed to produce so many Careers. I always assumed that having the blessing of the Capitol in some way contributed to that. District 2 provided Peacekeepers, so it naturally seemed to me that they stood to gain something by willingly entering the Hunger Games. But I did like that Collins gave us just a little more context to this: it was about glory and fame. District 2 housed arguably the most important part of the Capitol’s defenses and I think that rubbed off on the citizens. They were doing work for the Capitol by entering into the Games. That’s where the glory came from.

Anyway, back to Katniss. We learn she’s been in District 2 for two weeks now. In the district, the outer villages are in rebel control, the main town is split, and the only remaining Capitol-held establishment is seemingly invincible. It leaves Katniss with few options to help out, but she appears to be throwing herself into work, probably as a distraction. But it’s hard for her not to think about Peeta and what Snow has done.

Snow has stolen him from me, twisted him beyond recognition, and made me a present of him. Boggs, who came to 2 when I did, told me that even with all the plotting, it was a little too easy to rescue Peeta. He believes if 13 hadn’t made the effort, Peeta would’ve been delivered to me anyway. Dropped off in an actively warring district or perhaps 13 itself. Tied up with ribbons and tagged with my name. Programmed to murder me.

Now that’s a terrifying thought. What if Katniss had gone to District 8 again and Peeta came out of nowhere and tried to kill her? It’s clear that President Snow still works a step ahead of the rebels, knowing how important Katniss is to the uprising. The outlook isn’t too positive either, as Katniss gets updates from Haymitch about Peeta’s condition. Prim, always with her good ideas, gets the medical team to try to reverse hijack his memories, giving him positive drugs to reverse the effects of what the tracker jackers have done. But the progress is almost non-existent, just like the progress over in District 2.

Haymitch tells Katniss that Beetee and Gale are on their way to District 2 to hopefully assist the rebels with some of the plans they’d come up with on their own. It kind of worried me because virtually everything they were designing in District 13 was so brutal, but then…this has to end, right? I don’t foresee a method in which the rebels can take the Capitol without bloodshed, at least not yet.

Gale….oh, Gale. I am still really confused and weirded out by what happens in the midst of chapter fourteen. Gale’s not a perfect character. He may have some qualities and tendencies that work well with Katniss, so I understand why people ship them. But I also understand why Peeta and Katniss work, how their relationship seems a whole lot healthier and productive, and why ultimately I think they’ll be best together.

But with Peeta out of the way while the medical team works to restore his memories, Gale and Katniss open up in a frank way about what’s left of the two of them.

“I thought…I’ll never compete with that. No matter how much pain I’m in.” He spins the feather between his thumb and forefinger. “I don’t stand a chance if he doesn’t get better. You’ll never be able to let him go. You’ll always feel wrong about being with me.”

I find it strange that Gale frames the discussion around pain, especially considering how manipulating he was last time when he brought it up. But I think he’s being disingenuous towards what Katniss feels about Peeta because it’s much easier for him to create a narrative that makes sense to him.

And yet, Gale and Katniss end up together that night, comforting each other, and I don’t think they need any of my whiny voice interrupting that. While their relationship and interaction might be strange or problematic or weird, I get this: They are both incredibly lonely and it just feels right.

Now, I am a dude, so I am going to excuse myself out of this next bit I want to bring up because no one needs a dude mansplaining the intricacies of consent to women. I could not find anything online from a woman (actually…anyone, for that matter) who may have had problems with this section, so I’d like to turn it over to the fine women who comment on this blog and ask: DOES THIS MAKE YOU FEEL WEIRD?

“What’s going on in your head?”

“I don’t know,” I whisper back.

“Then it’s like kissing someone who’s drunk. It doesn’t count,” he says with a weak attempt at a laugh.

UM, I DON’T KNOW IF THAT IS AT ALL CORRECT. Being confused about feelings is not the same as the inability to consent, right? Either way, I am NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT THIS and would much rather read insights from women who actually experience this. TALK AMONGST YOURSELVES.

Let’s move on to some more weirdness. Katniss wants to know who else Gale has kissed because that conversation always ends well, but actually, it’s not so bad. We find out about how Gale came to discover that he actually liked Katniss! Turns out it was about six months before the first book, when Darius, the Peacekeeper who hung out in the Hob, teased Katniss about getting a kiss from him. It was the first time Gale felt uncomfortable with the thought of someone else kissing her. It is kind of adorable, but, like Katniss says, it’s a million miles away from where they are now. And everything is just so damned complicated.

Our attention is turned to more planning the following morning, as Beetee and Gale join those in District 2 to help figure out their plan of attack on The Nut. We meet Lyme, the commander from 2, who is actually a previous victor from the Hunger Games long, long ago. She runs the lengthy and frustrating brainstorm session as plans regarding spies, computer overrides, and storming the entrance to the Nut are all brought up and dismissed. It seems there’s virtually to answer to how they’re going to deal with this until Gale, who hasn’t spoken the entire time, finally decides to say something.

“Is it really so necessary that we take the Nut? Or would it be enough to disable it?”

“That would be a step in the right direction,” says Beetee. “What do you have in mind?”

“Think of it as a wild dog den,” Gale continues. “You’re not going to fight your way in. So you have two choices. Trap the dogs inside or flush them out.”

Not that bad of an idea, Gale. But doesn’t that involve getting inside of the Nut in some way? Either plan seems like you’d put the catalyst inside of the structure, right?

Gale’s brain doesn’t work that way, as he is already thinking of how to use the Nut’s advantage against itself. He points out the avalanche paths that run down either side of the mountain and Beetee suddenly understands: trigger an avalanche with explosives and trap those in the Nut inside.

While everyone considers the plan, Boggs flips through a stack of blueprints of the Nut and frowns. “You risk killing everyone inside. Look at the ventilation system. It’s rudimentary at best. Nothing like what we have in Thirteen. It depends entirely on pumping in air from the mountainsides. Block those vents and you’ll suffocate whoever is trapped.”

Well, you could do it temporarily, right? Until they surrender?

“They could still escape through the train tunnel to the square,” says Beetee.

“Not if we blow it up,” says Gale brusquely. His intent, his full intent, becomes clear. Gale has no interest in preserving the lives of those in the Nut. No interest in caging the prey for later use.

This is one of his death traps.

Well, goddamn, Gale. Is this how far he’s willing to go? Commit murder in the name of rebellion? And will the rest of them buy it? It’s overkill, plain and simple.


About Mark Oshiro

Perpetually unprepared since '09.
This entry was posted in Mockingjay, The Hunger Games and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

235 Responses to Mark Reads ‘Mockingjay’: Chapter 14

  1. bell_erin_a says:

    Alright, well. For some reason I can no longer access Mockingjay on, so I didn’t reread the chapter. And as I’ve been rereading each day, I’ve been shocked by how much of this book I’ve forgotten in even the two months it’s been since I first read it. Which means the chance of my dropping a spoiler pretty much just shot through the roof. I shall go read the review now and comment on that when I’m done.

    <img src=""&gt;

    ETA: So. It's a good thing I did that because it was a lot more info-dumpy than I thought it was.

    Well, you could do it temporarily, right? Until they surrender?
    I just kept thinking things like that through this chapter, like "you're going to stop there, right?" and then Gale just keeps going. STOP. IT. LIke I said yesterday, Gale keeps forgetting who the enemy is. It's not the citizens of the Capitol. It's not the citizens of D2, who are probably just as brainwashed as the people in the Capitol (although you still can't get me to like people like Enobaria and Brutus. Pity them? Maybe). It's not any of the other citizens of Panem. It's Snow and the government of the Capitol. Stop planning to kill everybody standing between you and Snow, Gale.

    Also, being drunk is not the same as being confused. I have no personal experience with any of this, but there's a difference. Unless you get into the fact that Katniss probably has PTSD, which would also mess with decision-making, and then I get confused. But I totally didn't notice that in my first read-through, wow.

    • pennylane27 says:

      That orange thing kept distracting me while I was writing my well-thought-out response. I blame it for any incoherences I may have written.

    • @falsewings says:

      "LIke I said yesterday, Gale keeps forgetting who the enemy is. It's not the citizens of the Capitol. It's not the citizens of D2, who are probably just as brainwashed as the people in the Capitol (although you still can't get me to like people like Enobaria and Brutus. Pity them? Maybe). It's not any of the other citizens of Panem. It's Snow and the government of the Capitol. Stop planning to kill everybody standing between you and Snow, Gale."

      Just pointing out that reminds me of what Haymitch told Katniss before the quell: "Just remember who the enemy is" (or something like that). Someone needs to tell this to Gale! 😉

    • Shanella says:

      I'm wondering if Gale's lack of compassion also has to do with the fact that Gale has only ever interacted with those from District 12 and now the rebels in 13.
      Perhaps in his head he doesn't even see these people (in D2 or citizens of the capitol) as real, but as this great enemy that has always oppressed them. Unlike Katniss who has dealt with real people from other districts and on some level understand that they are not the enemy.

      Note that I'm not trying to excuse Gale, just trying to understand his coldness. I still think what he's doing and how he thinks is absolutely wrong.

      • sparkerworks says:

        I think that's a really good point. In war you have to dehumanize the enemy; soldiers are trained to do so, because otherwise it's impossible to fight. You can't sit there thinking about the fact that the person whose head you're supposed to blow off has a mother and a father and a sister and brother somewhere, maybe kids of his or her own. They have to be this faceless force that is necessary to eradicate.

        Only later can you begin to sort your feeling out around it, if you want to kill to live. And that's why you're never, ever the same.

    • Saber says:

      This. It doesn't excuse him, but you can't condemn him for not realizing this any more then you can condemn the prep team.

  2. SorrowsSolace says:

    I love the world building in this book; they give you enough to be curious about and for the most part things seem sensible and balanced.
    Gah the Gale comment is pretty bad; being confused about how you feel and being drunk is not the same thing. Being unable to consent and being confused is totally different, you're either unable to make a choice entirely, or unsure of what to do. Why did I not notice this the first time I read it?

  3. mugglemomof2 says:

    I loved this chapter. I loved how Gale's true colors came out here. This book is hardcore. How far would you go for your cause? This is where the book took a turning point for me and REALLY turned from a fabulous YA novel into something more. This mirrors so much of what happens in real life all over the world. You want change- but what are you really willing to do to get there?

  4. momigrator says:

    Ugh, I have a feeling that the pearl is going to be used in some way to bring back Peeta's true memories of Katniss. It would really irritate me if something like that happened, like seriously, a little pearl and everything is fine and dandy again. But for some reason I have this nagging feeling that this is going to happen. :-/

    Okay, now as for the kiss. I've been in that position before and I WISH the guy had a "gale-like" response to the whole thing. Instead he insisted on kissing me more even though I was clearly confused and regretted it the next morning. But, that's my own damned fault anyway. I shouldn't have let it happen and I did. Doing that helped clear my head the next day, but I doubt that it'll help Katniss. Gale was much more respectful of her feelings and he is right in my opinion. If she doesn't really FEEL it, than how can it count? Dunno, just my perspective on the whole thing.

    EDIT: I wouldn't say it's the same as kissing someone DRUNK though, I mean geeze, bit of an overkill analogy there.

  5. Karen says:

    Err yeah saying kissing someone who's drunk and having it 'not count' is kind of icky for me. Though to be fair to Gale, the not counting part seems more having to do with interfering with their relationship, rather than the sexual harassment ( slash emotional abuse) side. But both apply really.

  6. mrsaddante says:

    RE: Drunk Kissing

    I work at a college and the idea that drinking makes one unable to consent to sex is something I work hard to convey to the students (though admittedly many of them still don't get it). I say that to let you know that I take the issue of consent as seriously as anyone (maybe more so). The basic premise of a consenting adult is one who's judgment is free and uncompromised. Substances like drugs and alcohol can definitely inhibit judgment, but laws also protect those who suffer from mental illness as well.

    In that light, Gale may not be so off the mark. I think it is reasonable to say that at this point in Mockingjay, Katniss is most likely suffering from PTSD and significant depression– conditions that could easily affect her ability to make decisions. Like you said, the kiss itself was a reaction to loneliness (and I'd venture a way to counteract the deep hurt from Peeta's condition)– not a reflection of her true desires toward Gale. It was self-medication– a rush to make the pain go away for a short while.

    Gale's recognition of that shows at least a little bit of character– at least he didn't keep going and capitalize on the situation. I don't think it was his recognition of her FEELINGS– but instead realizing that he was, in fact, taking advantage of his mentally compromised friend–just the same if her would have fed her a bottle of white liquor.

    • sparkerworks says:

      As someone who spent a lot of time being a drunk college student as an undergraduate, I'd like to make the clear distinction between both parties being drunk when something happens between them and one party who is not compromised in judgement taking advantage of another party who clearly is.

      Regrets can certainly happen in the first situation as well and both persons being compromised doesn't make either unaccountable for their actions, but it's the second situation that holds a lot more horror– especially if that someone is supposed to be "taking care of them". Gale should be taking care of Katniss, no? But it seems a bit like they're using each other to deaden their loneliness.

    • chocohouse says:

      I agree with what you're saying, and if Gale meant "kissing you while you're suffering from PTSD/depression is taking advantage of you, just like kissing you while you're drunk would be," I can see that. But there's still something that rubs me the wrong way about the "drunk girls don't count" phrasing. Just seems skeevy somehow. :/

    • Jenesaispas21 says:

      I agree with the above point that drinking and consent to…well, anything, are related. What I don't understand is why Mark is making it a man/woman distinction. Isn't that a generalization in and of itself? That somehow drunken consent (or lack thereof) is a female thing? The way the book reads is "someone who's drunk" not "a woman who's drunk." Honestly, Mark, as both a woman and a person who has been drunk, I don' think I (personally) would have read your thoughts on the matter (coming from a person who has also been drunk) as "mansplaining" or presenting a privilege problem. I get that you're trying to be sensitive. But in doing so I think you're also playing into a stereotype a little bit. What about drunk guys who get pressured into doing something stupid by their friends, and later get told that "it doesn't count" because they were drunk?

    • KatiePunkin says:

      I definitely agree with you. I don't think it's so much that "drunk girls don't count" but the thought that the kiss itself wouldn't really count because Katniss is in her right mind. In this manner, Gale is actually doing the right thing because he doesn't want to kiss someone who can't give consent for whatever reason, whether it be alcohol or severe emotional distress.

  7. monkeybutter says:

    “Then it’s like kissing someone who’s drunk. It doesn’t count."

    Great, there goes my Haymitch/Gale OTP.

    As for the kissing itself, I dunno. I read it as Katniss being confused about where she was and what she was doing, as she touched her concussion. I don't think Gale meant that he thought he was taking advantage of Katniss, just that she didn't love him best and was kissing him because only they were in a less inhibiting scenario. She feels free, not romantic, and Gale seems like an all-or-nothing sort of guy, so that's not good enough.

    They had some of their military resources situated on the outskirts of the Capitol itself—nuclear missiles, aircraft, troops

    So ever since we found out that the Capitol was in the Rockies, I've been convinced that the Capitol is in Colorado Springs because 1) they would have control over satellites and air power, as well as a place to hide-out in Cheyenne Mountain; and 2) I would get to hate on those hypocritical John Galt wannabes. So I'm just going to take this as proof in my favor! I also like that the Nut is based on Cheyenne Mountain (but probably not it, because it was started after the Dark Days). Yeah, I was definitely giddy reading this chapter.

    • Karen says:

      Great, there goes my Haymitch/Gale OTP.


    • HungryLikeLupin says:

      Great, there goes my Haymitch/Gale OTP.

      BRB, laughing forever. XD

    • Kyli says:

      Cheyenne Mountain came to mind when reading too. In my mind the Capitol is in Denver, and District 2 is just south in the Springs area, incorporating Cheyenne Mountain.

      So glad someone else thought of this and also felt giddy. 🙂

      • iolchos says:


        I grew up in the Springs and NORAD kept flashing in my head when this chapter came up but I wondered if I were alone

    • Saber says:

      they would have control over satellites

      The satalites all crashed, Plutarch said so already in his weapons-mankind-no-longer-has-at-it's-disposal bit

    • I live right next to Norad (please don't stalk me the mountain lions will eat you), and I concur. Colorado Springs lines up perfectly with what Collins describes, and the Nut would fit exactly to Norad.

    • g_aurelia says:

      Yeah, I know I'm a year late to this party but I just got around to reading these books last week.

      “Then it’s like kissing someone who’s drunk. It doesn’t count."

      I agree that this wasn't about consent. I think it was parallel to Peeta being upset about the engagement because he wanted it to be real. Gale wants Katniss to be certain of her feelings. She's not, so their make-out session doesn't count as an expression of love.

      My thoughts also went to Cheyenne Mountain. Imagine if the rebels seized the stargate!

      • monkeybutter says:

        lol, well done.

        So how did you like the books? Are you excited for the movie?

        • g_aurelia says:

          It feels wrong to say I liked a story involving so much trauma, but… it's a dystopia without an idealized hero that gives psychological pain equal (sometimes greater) weight to physical pain… yeah, I dig it. It did take me a while to get over the first person POV but I think I was over it before Mark was.

          I am excited for the movie! The casting looks very interesting. I actually looked up the costume designer. A part of me hopes they are consulting with Bob Mackie for the Cinna designed stuff.

  8. pennylane27 says:

    Oh wow. I'm back. My sister think I've got serious issues because I spent two weeks verbally abusing my country's internet provider for failing to provide a reliable wireless connection outside the capital. I had important emails, but all I worried about was missing chapters here. Oh well. So, to cope with my withdrawal symptoms, I read Mockingjay again. I had forgotten so much it's scary.

    Not as scary as what happened to Peeta, and Snow's intentions, and what Gale is proposing. This is when I started to dislike Gale a little more. I understand, you're at war, but seriously? Not cool, they are innocent people in there. I am way to much of a pacifist to ever feel okay about that.

    About the discussion you proposed, I think that it depends. Being drunk is not the same as being confused, obviously. I think that even if you're confused about your feelings, you can still determine whether you want to kiss a person or not, and decide if it feels right or not. As long as you're not using the other person I think it's fine. Maybe Gale feels he's taking advantage of Kat's confusion, or wants to feel that she's really all his or something.

    • andreah1234 says:

      but all I worried about was missing chapters here
      I do not blame you. I DO NOT BLAME YOU AT ALL.

      Not cool, they are innocent people in there. I am way to much of a pacifist to ever feel okay about that.
      Well, in my opinion, even if you're NOT a pacifist, it's still wrong to think it's okay to kill inocent people for the good of the "cause". And it makes them no better than the Capitol. It's Genocide even if the people you kill are soldiers or not.

  9. aurorabora says:

    Mark! Have you seen this amazing map of Panem that a couple people made on LJ?

    <img src=""&gt;

    The explanation and larger images are here.

    • pennylane27 says:

      This is awesome. Finally a good map.

    • DTDRC says:

      Ooh I love the spiral idea! I spent some time making my own map, and it took me the better part of a weekend between skimming the books for info and googling mines and resources and such. It was fun though!!

    • Shanella says:

      this is GREAT! thanks for sharing it!

    • Fuchsia says:

      It's nice but my main quibble with this map is that District 12, which is one of the smaller districts, is at least five times bigger than 2. I just wish that Collins would approve an official map already.

      • aurorabora says:

        Yeah, I actually had been picturing the districts as more like really large cities/colonies, with lots of empty space in between (i.e. no districts really "bordered" each other) but I like seeing others' visualizations, and this one seems fairly plausible. However, I've always thought District 13 was Washington DC, as that seems like the most likely place for a huge underground bunker to have been centuries before.

        • DTDRC says:

          I agree that each District is more like a a city, at least that's how I did my map (I'd post but I think it's spoilery, no?). There's no way District 12 covers that much land as there are only 8000 people in the entire district.

    • Kate says:

      I think this map has some interesting possibilities, but I'm a little confused about why almost all of Canada ceased to exist – even the eastern mountain ranges (Laurentians) which presumably would not sink, while New York (which I believe is at a relatively low elevation) survived. District 7 also poses some problems. It's supposed to be a forestry district, but those areas of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba are prairie – they're the Canadian bread-basket. Also, the Rockies continue north and would divide 7 in two, roughly along the Alberta/BC border.

      The map is neat and it's probably the best one I've seen, but it's a little USA-focused, no?

    • Saber says:

      Coming from a Canadian, most of the panem maps I've seen are. Most don't even go into Canada, like we're magically disappeared and left all of the US standing.


    • Simone says:

      I don't really like this map. The districts are such random shapes. Plus, didn't one of the books specifically say that the Capitol was not surrounded by districts (making it harder to attack)? I don't know, maybe I'm complaining too much. I think the only map I'll ever like is the one Collins makes (if she ever makes one).

    • Gabbie says:

      When people attempt to map out Panem, they put all the districts bordering each other. There's wilderness/space in between so people from 6 can't cross over into 8 or whatever. Said space, if large enough, could even have the arenas.

      • iolchos says:

        in the wilderness
        and then you know…ok well this matters to me, a lot

    • BrockyMecho says:

      The space 12 covers seems like way too much to fit ~8k people to me. You could easily and happily fit 8k people in West Virginia alone. I like the city idea mentioned here though. That's how I saw it too.

  10. cait0716 says:

    I know it's not what Collins described exactly, but I always imagined the Nut as basically being NORAD.

    As to the drunk/unsure of feelings question. Gale's comment sort of rang true for me. I don't think being drunk necessarily means you're completely unable to consent. Sure, if you're really drunk, things start to get a bit questionable. But if you're buzzed or tipsy, then you're basically just lacking the inhibitions you have when you're sober. It makes you more likely to kiss someone, regardless of whether you might be willing to or not while sober. But I think that after a few beers (depending of course on how your body reacts to a few beers), you still have the ability to consent to something like that. You just might be more willing to. And I think that's the same as what's going on with Katniss. She's lonely, confused and wants the companionship. And so she kisses Gale. In a different state of mind, when she's feeling more secure/stable, she might not have. I think that's what Gale was getting at. It doesn't count, because she might not want to in the morning.

    For a bit of background, I've had more than my fair share of drunken hookups at parties. There was only one that I felt happened without my consent. I was able to get myself out of that situation before anything major happened. Some of them I would have repeated, some of them not. Some did get repeated. Some would have happened had I stayed sober, others wouldn't have. But in the moment, I was fully on board with all of them happening. (Except, as previously mentioned, one).

    So I agree with this idea that you might be willing to do things in certain states of mind and not others. And that a kiss only "counts" if you'd be willing in all states of mind, as Gale sees it. In this instance, I think the kiss "counts" in the sense that it could imply or lead to a relationship, that both people are fully invested in that kiss and what it means

    • Kelly L. says:

      I agree with this. I don't think it was so much an issue of "consent" so much as… insincerity? People get drunk and are more willing to hook up with people without any sort of real feeling behind it, just because they're *there*, and I felt like that was what he was comparing it to. He was there, she was confused, it wasn't genuine. I don't know. My two cents.

  11. Karen says:

    In Los Angeles, rich, powerful people lived in the Hollywood Hills or Beverly Hills or in the hills above Brentwood, along Mulholland Drive, at the top of the hills in Los Feliz and Baldwin Hills.
    Yeah but the truly awesome people (or you know, me at least) are from in the Valley. Class divisions in LA are so WEIRD. Like I went to UCLA for undergrad and you have these super nice home in Brentwood literally across the street from rundown apartments that students live in.

    so I’d like to turn it over to the fine women who comment on this blog and ask: DOES THIS MAKE YOU FEEL WEIRD?
    Yeah. I actually don't know how I feel about that section. Like on one hand it really skeeves me out that is SOUNDS LIKE Gale implies that whatever you do to a drunk girl doesn't count, but at the same time I get that the actual meaning is that Katniss isn't into the kisses and therefore it doesn't count. Idk. But like, why couldn't he just say that instead of bringing the drunk thing into it? Idk idk. It's weird.

    Katniss/Gale is a really fucked up ship, but I won't begrudge anyone for liking them because it'd be super hypocritical since I have a few ships that I love that are even more messed up. The kissing scene is just so SAD though. Katniss isn't kissing Gale because she wants to kiss GALE she's kissing Gale because she can't kiss Peeta.

    I actually really love this bit:
    "It's only now that he's been corrupted that I can fully appreciate the real Peeta. Even more than I would've if he'd died. The kindness, the steadiness, the warmth that had an unexpected heat behind it. […] Sometimes when I'm alone, I take the pearl from where it lies in my pocket and try to remember the boy with the bread, the strong arms that warded off nightmares on the train, the kisses in the arena. To make myself put a name to the thing I've lost. But what's the use? It's gone. He's gone. Whatever existed between us is gone."

    SO SAD. It sucks that it took losing Peeta for Katniss to really accept and appreciate what he meant to her. Because now, I think that Katniss is aware of the fact that she loved Peeta. But of course it's too late. WHY DOES COLLINS MAKE EVERYTHING TRAGIC?

    Also, fuck you and your mass murdering tendencies, Gale. I am 100% positive that there are innocent civilians in that mountain. In the last chapter someone compared Gale's weapons and strategies to dropping the atomic bomb in WW2. And I think that this situation really shows that to be true. Logically, I can understand why these decisions were made, but in my heart, I just can't stand it. It just seems so wrong to kill all those innocent people.

    I'd be a terrible soldier or military leader.

  12. ldwy says:

    My thoughts upon reading:

    So Katniss has gone to District 2. I applaud her for thinking of herself and what she needs and just telling the higher ups in 13 that she needs to get out of there. Part of me wishes she were able to do more in D2, because distractions would be good for her, but at the same time, I'm happy she can just kind of go out, be in the fresh air, hunt. It's like a return to "normalcy" for her, and I'm sure she needs that.

    I love that we get such an in depth description of another district, we haven't had this in awhile, and apart from 12 and 13, we've really seen very little of any other district. Using, essentially, a hollowed out mountain as a fortress/armory/war camp is pretty nifty. Makes me think of the dwarves in LotR, though 🙂
    <img src="; border="0">

    When Gale comes, I actually thought their interaction was very real. I still think that he'd be a better friend to her if he just left off all advances and let her alone until her mind wasn't on a thousand more pressing matters but he's only human. He's acting selfishly in constantly bringing it up to her, but I can understand it. He's in a war, conceivably, he is facing the prospect of death. I'd probably want the person I loved to know it too. The way he can't seem to help but bring it up in relation to Peeta (and even Finnick?!) is kind of bleeehhh. Jealously seems to be a big part of Gale's character. Unlikable and imperfect, yes. But also realistic. Plenty of people would act just like him, and I'm giving him a little slack. They way he stopped kissing her when he realized she was so confused, rather than taking advantage was good of him, I respect that.

    The plan to trap the mountain with an avalanche? Cool, but also kind of terrible. We're really getting a stark picture of war here.

  13. jahizzle says:

    Hmm, I’m not sure how to comment on Gale’s drunk comment because I’ve never been drunk myself but I have kissed someone a couple times and been confused about it. But it is very weird to me that he chose that analogy. Clearly she has a lot going on in her mind and it seems to me like that’s the opposite of being drunk…in which most of the people I’ve seen become carefree and don’t seem to care much about anything, which I just realized is the same thing, but I know that’s not everyone, and now I’m rambling…but just…no, Gale, no. Shut up.

    • vermillioncity says:

      I absolutely read that as 'I've never been drunk myself but I have KILLED someone a couple times', lmfao. I was like, '……wait, what?'

  14. PaulineParadise says:

    Oh, Gale.

  15. Claire says:

    This may just be fan-wanking, but I see Gale as trying to figure Katniss's capacity to make decisions and the "drunk" thing is him attempting to find a frame of reference. He might not grasp how damaged she is between the concussion symptoms and the PTSD, but he's groping for something similar that makes sense to him so that he can react appropriately.

  16. stellaaaaakris says:

    Gah, Gale, I can't even talk to you right now. I'm not even really a pacifist and you are frustrating me every time you open your mouth, about Peeta, about the rebellion, about whatever.

    I think the way District 2 Victors have been treated is really interesting. Brutus was extremely eager to reenter the arena, while Lyme (that's not a Roman name, is it?) is leading the rebellion.

    Speaking of District 2, we have new District info! So I'm going to try to place the Districts again using the help of my atlas which still has Yugoslavia as a country, but also has the main industries for everywhere marked by symbols.

    District 12 I place in West Virginia. We know District 13 is approximately a week's walk from 12. Googling graphite in North America brings up a place in Ontario, Canada, which Google Maps says is about a 7 day walk. District 11 is somewhere in the South and they are the main source of food. District 10 is cattle so I'm thinking Texas or Oklahoma? District 8 is cloth and textile factories so maybe around Chicago or another area. District 7 is lumber and since none of the Districts lie west of the Rockies I'm going to go and put this in ___, Canada (I think Alberta had a few tree symbols). District 4 fishes and I'm assuming the fish will go wherever the water is to the new coast, I'll say 4 is somewhere in the new Pacific Northwest. 2 is near stone quarries and I assume it's physically close to the Capitol, so I'm going with the Denver/Boulder area, where my atlas says there's mining. 1 can go to the south of that, so, um, New Mexico? The Capitol is the only thing I would place west of the Rockies, so why not somewhere in Colorado? The others, I have no idea so I'll put District 3 in Wyoming, 5 and 6 in Minnesota and the Dakotas. And 9 might like Missouri.

    I'm sure there are a bajillion reasons my list is wrong or different from others' ideas, but this is the best I can come up with so far. I really do wish Collins would have told us where things were because I get distracted from the story when I try to figure out where everything is.

    • Karen says:

      I think your placement for District 1 is interesting, but I might place it more in actual Mexico just because District 1 is supposed to deal in precious metals and jewels, right? And there's a lot o silver mining in parts of Mexico, so maybe it's near there? Idk. Just a theory.

      • stellaaaaakris says:

        Ooh, ok. I wanted to include Mexico somehow, but my super-handy atlas didn't have many symbols in northern Mexico and I figured the southern part was under water, but there is no symbol for luxury items so I'm good placing 1 there.

    • monkeybutter says:

      I didn't realize it until your comment, but I think their names might reveal why Brutus and Lyme have taken different paths. Brutus was probably raised in a pro-Capitol family and lives for glory, but Lyme was raised in a stonecutter family (I'm guessing it's Lyme from limestone, another one of those environmental/industrial names), had to fight in the games without believing in the attendant honor, and is now leading the rebellion in her district.

      I think the Capitol is in central Colorado, but I don't think that's west of the Rockies. Was there something in the books stating that no districts are West of the Rockies? I don't remember that, but it would ruin my idea of District 7 being in the Pacific Northwest.

      • stellaaaaakris says:

        I didn't even realize Lyme could be for limestone. All I could think of was Lyme disease. I like your theory better, it makes sense.

        I'm not exactly sure where I got the idea that all the districts are east of the Rockies. It might have been the books or my own personal filling in the blanks. But I was under the impression that part of the reason the rebellion failed was that the rebels had to climb mountains to reach the Capitol and, after such an exhausting climb, they were understandably tired and were easy pickings for the Capitol hovercrafts. I also don't know the range of the Rockies, their extent. I'm sure the trek to Colorado from the Pacific Northwest would be exhausting in any case.

        • monkeybutter says:

          The Rockies are huge (NM to BC), and I actually think they're in the Pacific Northwest or border it (I'm not sure about the delineation, either), but there's also the Cascades and other mountain ranges, so it would be a helluva job keeping everything under control. The Capitol would be hard to attack from any direction if it's in the mountains (particularly if it's near Pike's Peak like I think it is), so I'm pretty sure Collins was just referring to the difficulty of attacking from lower ground. You need lots of air power and unimpeded access, so all of the Districts have to cooperate.

        • DTDRC says:

          THG pg 59 says "The mountains form a natural barrier between the Capitol and the eastern districts." which could be read wither way I think. Either "eastern districts" is used because there are western districts, or "easter districts" because all districts are east of the capitol.
          It goes on to say that "Since the rebels had to scale the mountains, they were easy targets for the Capitol's air forces." Which may imply all Districts are eastern, yet District 1 and 2 may be west of the rockies but not as involved in the fighting, which may lead to their preferential treatment later on.

    • HanLin says:

      I think District 4 is in the Gulf Coast, because of the fishing. Just a theory, IDK. Everything else looks spot on though 🙂

      • stellaaaaakris says:

        Yeah, I originally had 4 there as well, but having numbered things not be in numerical order really bothers me so I couldn't let that be haha. So I thought Alaska has salmon so maybe 4 is in the new northwestern part of the country. I don't know. So many possibilities. I kind of wish Collins had done a map so I can just stop trying to figure out where everything is and concentrate on the story.

    • t09yavorski says:

      I always imagined district 4 around the Gulf of Mexico area (Florida and the like). Finnick is really tan knows how to swim, and while both of those are possible in the pacific northwest they are more likely in the south.

      Also, I like to imagine Finnick on Carribean beaches, even though in this universe they are probably underwater. :/

    • Gabbie says:

      I concur!

    • I think the Nut is Norad, since I live very close to it I've seen enough of it to see a lot of similarities between it and District Two.

  17. Karen says:

    I think the reason that the Rockies make more sense is because District 12 is clearly in the coal mining region of West Virginia, and it's a full day's train ride to the Capitol from there (and District 2 surrounds the Capitol).

  18. tethysdust says:

    To me, all of the Ganiss conversations in this chapter sounded like Gale explaining to Katniss how she feels and why. This really grated on me. Maybe it's true that Gale understands Katniss more than Katniss understands herself, but its fucking condescending to just assume it in conversation. I have been on the receiving end of that sort of treatment before, and it's infuriating.

    Also, I didn't really see Gale's, "It's like you're drunk" comment as him being concerned with taking advantage of Katniss. I think it was just that he wants physical intimacy with Katniss to also include exclusive emotional intimacy. He doesn't want her to care about Peeta, or any other boy. He doesn't want to just kiss Katniss, he wants to own her.

    Also, then he planned to kill a bunch of people. WTF, Gale?

    (Also, I'm a little irritable right now from overwork and lack of sleep, so I'm probably being a tad unfair to Gale here…)

    • cait0716 says:

      I have an issue with your choice of phrasing that Gale wants to own Katniss. He wants a monogamous relationship with her, yes. But that's not the same as wanting to own her, which implies a rather unequal relationship (e.g. Edward wants to own Bella). A big part of the reason Gale likes Katniss is her strength and independence. I believe he is seeking a relationship with her in which they would be equals. And I believe he wants her to be intimate with him and him alone, as you said. But the "ownership" connotation bugged me.

      • tethysdust says:

        I got that vibe mostly from the way Gale phrased his attraction to Katniss. For instance, his first romantic thought about Katniss was that he didn't want her to kiss anyone else. And he seemed to be saying that it wasn't enough if Katniss chose to be with him. He needed her to stop caring about Peeta altogether. I know that exclusivity is kind of the point of monogamous relationships, but it seems like his love is defined by possessing all of her love.

        I agree that my phrasing was pretty harsh, though. I guess the main thing I was pointing out was how possessive and patronizing Gale is towards Katniss in this chapter.

        • cait0716 says:

          Ah. I didn't see him as being possessive so much as jealous. And I gave him a bit of leeway for being a teenager. Jealousy is a tough emotion to deal with, and even harder in the first few relationships. But I commend him for being honest about his feelings for Katniss and what he wants from her in return. I see his manipulation (the kiss) as mostly stemming from his own confusion and inexperience and not from a desire to possess Katniss. I can see how it can be interpreted more as him being a possessive jerk, though.

    • Karen says:

      all of the Ganiss conversations in this chapter sounded like Gale explaining to Katniss how she feels and why.
      I think you actually make a good point there. Katniss is clearly going through something big, and it really bothers me that Gale has to take what she is dealing with regards to Peeta and make it all about him.

      I think it was just that he wants physical intimacy with Katniss to also include exclusive emotional intimacy. He doesn't want her to care about Peeta, or any other boy. He doesn't want to just kiss Katniss, he wants to own her.
      Idk if you're being unfair to Gale or not, but I do think that is a really interesting reading of the scene. I kind of like that this scene is being read in so many different ways. Hm.

  19. Chrome says:

    Before MJ came out, I discussed the Katniss-Peeta relationship with some friends. While we all liked them together, our concern was that the manufactured aspect created too many problems. How could Katniss really trust whether her feelings toward Peeta were genuine or a result of the Games’ manipulation. And as much as we adore Peeta, his side of things had seldom really been tested. He was always just “Peeta, the poor guy who loved Katniss unconditionally”. Which is why MJ is kind of brilliant. Peeta loving Katniss had always been taken for granted; what is she (and the readers) supposed to do when the rug is pulled out? If Peeta is to fall back in love with her, he now has to start from scratch and overcome a hell of a lot of issues related to the hijacking and other problems. And it forces Katniss to decide how hard she wants to try to get back the part of Peeta that loves her.

    Ultimately, although the romance with Peeta is a driving force behind the narrative in the first two books, it is seldom a driving force for Katniss. Readers might be focused on it, but she really isn’t except when it impacts all the other things she’s striving toward (she doesn’t give a damn about looooooooove). And that’s one of the things I really love about this trilogy.

  20. Kripa says:

    Gale's comment about it being like kissing someone who's drunk and saying that he's kissed lots of girls, but never a drunk one, actually made me stop feeling uncomfortable. Until that point, I felt hella uncomfortable. Gale's asking Katniss what she's thinking about was his form of seeking out consent, and he deemed her not thinking as ineffective consent and he stopped. I appreciate that. Gale has flaws and good qualities. This was his good quality.
    Also, I took note that Katniss never felt HORNY the way she has with Peeta. When KatPee made out, twice now, Katniss talked about having Harry's chest monster. Yeah, making out with Gale feels good, but it's never the raw lust that Peeta brought out in her. That's why I'm Team KatPee, not Team GatNiss.

    • thatonegirl says:

      Can I just say I love that you call it "Harry's chest monster"? The first time I read it as hairy chest monster and was very confused. o.0 But I get it now. That's full of win.

    • Lynn says:

      Yeah, I agree with you here. I respected Gale's decision to stop. I also noticed that Katniss did not sound like she was getting the fire that she got with Peeta. It was more like she was trying to throw herself at him to avoid feeling pain. In that respect it was more numbing rather than inspiring intense feelings or desire. Not a good situation for either of them..

  21. la.donna.pietra says:

    I don't think Gale's comparison is exactly perfect, but it does resonate with me. I've been in situations where people took advantage of my confusion and lack of experience in order to get me to do various things, and it wound up making me feel… weird. A lot of young, inexperienced women (and men) end up feeling this way to one degree or another. I think that whatever Gale's other shortcomings might be, at least he recognizes that this is a problem, and he doesn't want Katniss feeling that way.

    Either that, or he's employing a particularly sophisticated method of macking.

  22. embers says:

    I always thought that the Capitol was further west (like in Calif or at least in Denver) so I'm not sure I accept this map. I wish Collins would come out with something.

    And with the kiss, I thought that Katniss wanted comfort (like she always got from sleeping with Peeta on the train), and also was willing to be swept away by Gale (as she had been swept away by Peeta's kisses on the beach). But none of that was happening and she was confused and unwilling to discuss her feelings in detail with Gale. But I'm probably wrong (I was reading very fast! lol).

  23. bendemolena says:

    I dunno, I could never hate Gale just because his mindset was more realistically war-oriented than a lot of other people. His ideas may seem extreme and I wouldn't be supporting them either but I feel like he looks farther ahead than a lot of people and is most concerned with the ends rather than the means. It may not be right but it's not something I begrudge him for. I feel like he's a lot more willing to make tough decisions, and thats' personally why I really like him. He's extremely decisive and it's kind of refreshing in an odd way. /kanyeshrug

    (Also note that it's not like he wants to bomb the Nut [collins please stop naming things forever] and run away. He says he'd die in there if he had to. He's willing to risk everything for his cause, it's not that he wants to cause as much bloodshed as humanly possible as a big Fuck You to the Capital.)

    • monkeybutter says:

      I'm happy to see someone with a different opinion about Gale, but the idea of liking people who are "more willing to make tough decisions" has always irritated me. It's such a bullshit political phrase to avoid any responsibility or discussion about the choices you've made, and it lets people brush aside their responsibility to pay attention to what their leaders are doing. "I'll make the tough choices, so don't you worry your pretty little head." Certainty isn't a good thing when you consistently make terrible, amoral decisions!

      ETA: I just realized why that phrase made me so apoplectic. From Bush's farewell address: "You may not agree with some of the tough decisions I have made, but I hope you can agree that I was willing to make the tough decisions." Sorry if some of my ire got misdirected at you.

      • bendemolena says:

        No normally I don't agree either, and I understand what you mean. But we've also been seeing things from Katniss' point of view, and while I don't agree with all of her choices, the difference, I think, is in the fact that she only makes them when she needs to. She's fighting for survival so we see a lot of her going back and forth with her options internally, which I understand and from first person POV it's perfectly realistic and fine. But I think it's sort of refreshing that Gale comes in and firmly says, 'Alright, this is what I'm pretty sure needs to be done to get from y to z." He's willing to basically say yes, there is going to be a lot of shit going down but without it we can't get to our goal. He doesn't try and sugar-coat everything, I guess? I don't know. I'm not saying that Katniss does but she does spend a lot of time questioning everything so I suppose I mean to say that while 'tough decision' isn't always going to be the right one, Gale's decisiveness is appreciated and feels very realistic.

        • monkeybutter says:

          Oh, yes, I agree completely that it's good to have a character with a strong opinion in contrast to an indecisive narrator. I love that Collins is including people with all kinds of opinions and approaches to this war, and Gale is a necessary character. It's great to have two characters who were both really anti-establishment and militant against the Capitol change in opposition to each other due to different experiences. Katniss still wants change, but her attitude towards other people has softened, while Gale has become increasingly radical. I love him and hate him at the same time.

  24. Andrea says:

    I'm surprised you thought the story of how Gale came to realize he loved Katniss was cute. I thought it made him look like a posessive and jealous jerk. This chapter was it for me and Gale – we were no longer friends.

    • shortstack930 says:

      I understand what you mean, it made it seem like he was off with all these other girls for years and never noticed Katniss but the second another guy so much as flirted with her he was like um, that's not cool. And instead of just mentioning his feelings to her he waited until after she got back from the Games and after another guy had confessed his love for her? Way to mess with her head.

      • Andrea says:

        Exactly. Who he is as a person makes me shudder. There were so many things to love about Katniss when he knew her in a simpler time that love being drawn out of him in response to someone else taking an interest in her makes him an undeserving DOOSH.

  25. kajacana says:

    I am still upset about the Hufflepuff Common Room thing. 🙁

    • zuzu says:

      Me too. It's completely unfair to all the Hufflepuffs out there. *cough* me *cough*

    • Gillyweed says:

      Well, she did describe it in an interview:
      "In a web chat on Bloomsbury's website in 2007, J. K. Rowling was asked about the Common Room. Below is a section of the transcript:
      Smallbutpowerful: On behalf of all harry potter fans who consider themselves to be hufflepuffs could you please describe the hufflepuff common room as it is the only common room harry hasn’t visited
      J.K. Rowling: The Hufflepuff common room is accessed through a portrait near the kitchens, as I am sure you have deduced.
      J.K. Rowling: Sorry – I should say ‘painting’ rather than portrait, because it is a still-life.
      J.K. Rowling: It is a very cosy and welcoming place, as dissimilar as possible from Snape’s dungeon. Lots of yellow hangings, and fat armchairs, and little underground tunnels leading to the dormitories, all of which have perfectly round doors, like barrel tops."
      So it's basically hobbit house and I love it. 🙂

  26. bendemolena says:

    Also, did anyone kind of.. roll their eyes a bit at this chapter? I mean, it seems as though Gale's idea was completely novel and nobody had even considered it before. Really? Not Coin? Not Beetee? Not even, say, Plutarch, who willingly assists in inciting murder on live television? Come on. I'm sure realistically it would have been thought of by now, especially if they've been planning this rebellion for how long? I personally didn't like how it's ~Gale's Death Trap~, I guess, when there's no way realistically he'd be the first to consider it. He'd definitely agree with it, yes, but people in the planning team would have come up with it first in all likelihood. (There's a trope name for this but I can't remember what it is. Kids are Smarter Than Adults or something?)

    I think there's a purpose behind shouldering Gale with the credit but unfortunately I can't talk about it yet, boo.

    • monkeybutter says:

      I think it's odd that they didn't think of sealing off the Nut, but it could be that they wanted to capture all of District 2 and use its resources against the Capitol, or squeamishness on the part of the rebels in 2 about killing their neighbors. They also might have been reticent about suggesting a scorched earth policy and were just waiting for someone else to chime in. But even if Gale was the one to suggest it, they're just as guilty if they go along with it.

    • ninjac8 says:

      Well, Gale was the only hunter there. Everyone else was from a military viewpoint. There are just somethings that don't occur to people with clear viewpoints.

      Also, this could have been one of those times where everyone was thinking it, but no one wanted to say anything.

      • bendemolena says:

        The hunter angle is possible, but, I mean.. how long have they been planning this rebellion? They knew that they'd have to take 2 at one point or another, and they apparently had moles all over the place feeding them information for.. well, probably quite a long time, seeing how prepared everyone was otherwise. To me it just seems unrealistic that there would be no prior planning to take one of the most important Districts, and one that was very obviously going to be one of the most difficult to wrest from the Capital's control.

        They had the plan in taking the Districts in descending number order from the beginning, so obviously there was SOME degree of planning involved, but the fact that 2 was going to be extremely important and difficult (and taking or not taking it would potentially turn the tide in one favor or another) but somehow they left even thinking about it until the very last minute possible seems ludicrous, especially with all the planning and think-tanking that seems to have gone into most other things.

        Though I'll admit, maybe I'm raising my eyebrows a little too high here because it was around this point in the book where I started to dislike it and I don't know why. 8C

    • notemily says:

      I think the chapter implies that they were too focused on taking the mountain and using its resources for themselves, and it was only when they realized that'd probably be impossible that they considered Gale's plan. Also, I mean, the avalanche plan is kind of an uncertain one–you have to depend on the mountain to cooperate. I think they're implying that Gale ~Knows About Nature~ or something because he hunts in the woods, but it seems logical to me that they wouldn't consider such a plan until they had someone like Beetee there, who could work out the logistics.

  27. syntheticjesso says:

    Confusion =/= inability to consent, but I think I understand Gale's point. I know that when I'm confused, I really need space and time to think until I can figure things out, and I'm easily pushed towards one decision or another. It's something I really have to be aware of about myself, and I have to fight it to keep my head clear. So I can see how confusion could = tendency to let outside factors influence decisions prematurely, which if you're Gale and trying to be succinct could end up being translated as "drunk". Like, someone who is drunk has lowered inhibitions, so they are more likely to do things they wouldn't otherwise do while sober… and Katniss is confused so it's more likely that she'll make decisions (and kisses) that she wouldn't otherwise if she were given space.

    I feel like I'm not being very clear here. I hate trying to explain myself in words! I hope I'm being clear.

  28. lisra says:

    This chapter is particularly nasty.. not because there's the usual staccato of terrible events, but because it showcases some more of the horrible situation and the evil of war. It shows what the work of the capitol did to Gale, making him, over the years, willing to use so much deadly force if just could, and believing himself to be right. He's not, but I can feel sympathy. One reaction to constant oppression is violence. Another event where Gale completely lost my support; but at least he still comforts Katniss a bit. They both need that so much.


  29. turnaround says:

    Gale is just like I was in my early to mid-teens, and I would probably still be the same way if I hadn't met my current boyfriend. Seriously, all he needs is love!

    I'm one of those few who agrees with Gale and also didn't see the last kiss as being manipulative. In my experiences, kissing someone while being confused about feelings was way more damaging than kissing someone while drunk, but they are comparable experiences. Either way your judgment is impaired, and you're hurting yourself and your relationships by kissing someone with whom you have an undefined relationship.

    Also, about Gale… I can't be the only person who has been in love with a best friend only to be dumped by them for some unexpected person. I really don't think he was faking pain or using it for a kiss from Katniss. Katniss wasn't expecting things to change either and I know that the Hunger Games fucked up everything for her, but Gale still has feelings of his own and he didn't have the same experiences, so he can't change in the same way Katniss has. She's pretty much left Gale behind and really, there's no possible way for him to catch up. I can't even imagine how hard it would be for him to not only still be friends with Katniss, but to work with her daily and support her, all while she is obviously in love with Peeta and concerned with his recovery. When he said, "See, I knew you would kiss me," I didn't think of it as "I cried so you would kiss me," but more "This fucking blows to be the sidekick to a girl I thought I'd spend my life with who is in love with someone else, so I'm not going to stop you from kissing me because I need comforting, even if it's just going to hurt us both even more." I feel like most people would act selfishly in that situation, just like he did. At least he takes her motivations into account in the future even if she doesn't. Life's not a party for Gale; Katniss just has it worse.

  30. shortstack930 says:

    I don't like that Gale is trying to discuss feelings with Katniss when she is already at her most vulnerable, and the way he talks about being jealous of Peeta just seems so WRONG. I mean, Peeta has suffered so much and Gale is jealous because he thinks it will make Katniss feel guilty about being with anyone else. Like the girl isn't confused enough about her feelings. I didn't care for his comparison between being drunk and being confused because it is not the same thing, but maybe it was his way of realizing that he shouldn't be taking advantage of her vulnerable PTSD state since she's obviously not emotionally involved in the kiss. She's just lonely and confused.

  31. andreah1234 says:

    Gale, You are being an asshole. Please stop. OR I will get Buttercup on your ass. And Johanna, now that she's you know BACK (some time with her would be nice BTW and Finnick MOAR HAPPY!Finnick). You don't wanna mess with them. *stern look*…

    Aaaaand you know you're losing your mind when you are threatening fictional character with (awesome but also)fictional cats. And badass girls.

    I don't think I have a good response for this chapter (see above) other that I rather liked it. It gave us character development, DARIUS and information that even if it wasn't really important to the story it was very, very interesting. The kissing thing might have confused me a bit (though I do think that's the way you're supposed to feel as in that's the way Kat is feeling and we are inside her head(?)), so like Mark, I won't really comment on it.

  32. Blabbla says:

    I didn't read Gale's comments as referring to kissing someone who is too drunk to consent, just drunk enough to do something that they might not have done a few beers earlier. I don't subscribe to the idea that any amount of alcohol makes people incapable of meaningful consent, though, so YMMV.

  33. lilah80 says:

    I think that Gale thinks of his relationship with Katniss as a battle that he's waging against Peeta. He sees a kiss as a personal achievement in this battle, but if she kisses him while confused or drunk, that's not a successful mission. It's not a point in his favor, so it "doesn't count." That's kind of a messed up view of a relationship, and it's far from healthy, but at least it's not rapey.

    In this same chapter, we see the lengths that Gale will go to to win the war against the Capitol. It's comforting to know that there are lines he's not willing to cross to "win" Katniss. But it's icky that he thinks of her as something that can be "won."

    • theupsides says:

      I think this is how he views it, too. He even sees Peeta, all hijacked, and still thinks of him as competition. It's really frustrating. And–newsflash Gale–talking about Peeta that way won't make Katniss like you more!

  34. Neiha says:

    Dear lawd, this part never fails to make me SO CONFLICTED OMG

  35. MeasuringInLove says:

    I would think the kiss wouldn't count if the person doing the kissing was the drunk one, and the person being kissed was sober. Does that make sense? I've neither been drunk nor kissed anyone, being fourteen. And except for a few summers spent with my family in Ireland, I am not around drunk people too much. Whatever, I don't approve of Gale saying that. Or killing all those people in THE NUT (such a funny name, Katniss.). Blech, the only redeeming quality in this is the wealth of info on District 2.

    Side note: This may just be because I reread the series last week, but did Mark being all "I don't want to intrude" remind anyone else of that one line of Lemony Snicket's? From the Slippery Slope? When Violet and Quigley are climbing the waterfall and stop for a while and get all cozy and then Lemony Snicket says that he would rather not destroy what little privacy the Baudelaires had left? No? Just me? Does anyone even understand what I said? I don't think I do…I'm gonna shut up now.

  36. SusanBones says:

    The impression that I got from the Gale/Katniss kiss scene was that Gale sensed that Katniss would only kiss him because she needed comfort, not because she truly liked him. And I don't think that Gale wanted to be used like that. I had to respect Gale for this scene.

    And then I had to wonder how Gale had gotten so heartless when he suggested trapping the District 2 people in the mountain. He came from District 12, the coal mining district, and the people in that district knew better than all the other districts how horrible it was to be trapped underground. Wow, it looked like Gale finally showed his true colors.

  37. theupsides says:

    I think what we see happen in this chapter is that Katniss finally admits how much she cares for Peeta…and then decides to let him go. There are those scenes where she talks about how great he was, and how she only now realizes it. And how, when she goes to kiss Gale, this is the moment when she is letting Peeta go, despite her feelings for him. She knows she loves him, but she also knows he's gone. So she goes to Gale. Because she's lonely, because she's depressed. Because he's her best friend.

    Gale knows this. He knows she's with him because she can't have Peeta. And I think he might be a little off the mark when he says it's like being drunk. She can consent to being with him. He just doesn't like her reasons for doing so. He wants her to be with him because she wants to, not because she's lonely, or because she's sad about Peeta. That's how I read it, anyway.

  38. Julia says:

    Ya know what would be awesome? Katniss and the rest of 12 singins west virginia mountain mama. Just sayin'

  39. tchemgrrl says:

    I really need to figure out how to excise the 12-year old tween in my brain so I can stop making double-entendre jokes about nuts the whole time I'm listening to this chapter.

    Re: Gale, I think it's not so much the factor of consent as the squick factor. Mackin' on someone that's been going through nothing but trauma and who probably has some long-term emotional issues, and who can't even decide if she likes you Like That under the circumstances–not such a big turnon. Under the circumstances of the this and the last chapter, at least he's able to consider *someone's* autonomy.

  40. Katherine says:

    I find it rather strange that you're so surprised by what Gale's willing to do. This is a war. Of course he's willing to kill their enemies. Every military force in the world is willing to accept civilian casualties in order to achieve their objectives.

    And it makes sense for Gale to be more ruthless than Katniss. Even though she was put in the Hunger Games, he's suffered more of the Capitol's day-to-day tyranny than she has. He worked dawn to dusk in the coal mines, was whipped by the Capitol, saw his family come near starvation when the Capitol cut off food supplies, and was actually there to see the destruction of District 12. And unlike Katniss, he doesn't know anyone from outside District 12 particularly well. It's the same reason he was mystified about Katniss' compassion for her prep team: he doesn't know anyone from the Capitol on a personal basis, so to him they're just faceless oppressors – as is the source of the Capitol's military, District 12.

    Gale's attitude is far more what I'd expect from a person living under the Capitol's oppressive government than Katniss' attitude. Revolutionaries aren't generally known for being warm and fuzzy.

  41. Penquin47 says:

    My take on the confused/drunk thing:

    When a girl is drunk and kisses you, it doesn't mean much because of the alcohol.
    When a girl is confused and kisses you, it doesn't mean much because she doesn't know what she wants.

    The consent issue makes this a rather poor choice of analogies, because the consent isn't the point. The point is that Gale doesn't want Katniss to kiss him because he's there, or because she wants to kiss to forget her pain, or because she's drunk, or otherwise doing it "for the wrong reasons" (one of the phrases abused so much by reality TV that it's hard to take seriously). Gale wants Katniss to kiss him because she wants him. Otherwise, it doesn't count.

  42. msfeasance says:

    I feel like it may be what happened in Twelve that DID make him this way. The vast majority of the people from his district are dead, and I think he's also got a beef with Two because that's where the Peacekeepers like Thread came from. He's —literally–carrying around the reminders of Peacekeeper brutality on his back.

  43. theresa1128429 says:

    Being confused about your emotions is not the same as being drunk. Katniss made the decision to make out with Gale in the woods, whether it was for the right reasons or not. While I don't think that Katniss is unable to consent to all of this, I seriously want to punch Gale in the face for always taking advantage of her when she's in a bad place.

    Also, I understand the necessity of taking the Nut, but I wish Gale would stop being like "KILL KILL KILL"

  44. HungryLikeLupin says:

    First off: Gale's comment. Honestly, I think that this was just some mildly unfortunate phrasing on Collins's part; I doubt she actually meant to be talking about consent here. To me, it feels more like (as some people have said above) Gale being aware that Katniss's feelings are confused at best when she isn't under extreme stress, and so anything that she says or does right now is suspect. It sounds to me like he's trying to reassure her that he's not going to try to hold her to any of this later. I'll freely admit that I'm not the biggest fan of Gale (especially given his current actions, but we'll get to that in a minute), but I don't think this was any sort of a reflection on how he might behave if a girl were drunk. If anything, I think it's a reference to his acknowledgment that Katniss isn't herself. It's not him saying that she shouldn't worry about anything they do because it doesn't count, it's him telling her that if it doesn't count, he doesn't want it to happen. He doesn't just want to kiss Katniss for the sake of kissing her; he wants to kiss her when she wants it just as much.

    Okay. Gale. SERIOUSLY, GALE. I said before that I'm extremely uncomfortable with the traps that he and Beetee have been designing, and this is exactly why. He says they need to think of the Nut as a wild dog den, and that's exactly what he's doing, down to thinking of those trapped inside as animals rather than people. He's doing what Katniss knew she would have to do to survive her first Hunger Games, dehumanizing the enemy in order to quiet any pesky moral voice saying that killing people is wrong. The problem with that is that this isn't the arena; it's not a last-one-standing kind of situation. It's not actually necessary to kill every person on the opposing side, especially not when some of these people might not actually be on the opposing side at all seriously what is wrong with you?

    What worries me about this is that Gale–as well as certain parts of the rebel leadership, yes Coin, I'm looking at you–seems to have decided that the ends justify the means. Hundreds, if not thousands, of innocent people may die, but that's all acceptable so long as the Capitol falls. It sounds too much like the kind of thinking that lets the Capitol say that the slaughter of almost two-dozen children every year is acceptable so long as it keeps peace throughout Panem. It's a slippery slope, and it's one that a lot of them are either unaware or uncaring that they're sliding down head-first.

  45. Kal says:

    What I have a problem with is Gale /telling/ Katniss their kiss doesn't count. If Katniss is confused THEN IT COUNTED! If she'd shrugged it off and been like "Oh, yeah, whatever, I don't care," then yeah, it wouldn't count (IMO). In my experience as someone with very intense personal boundaries, I hate it when others make these kind of decisions for me. It's like "I'll just kiss you/touch you now and not ask you first, and then tell you what to think about it or tease you for being uncomfortable." For me, kissing and many forms of touching is just uncomfortable, and I hate when people try to tell me "that was romantic," or "that was just a friendkiss." Them telling me what counts and what doesn't makes me feel bad about being uncomfortable with any kind of physical contact, and it makes me confused and, frankly, feel like I'm somehow wrong in feeling that way. If I had been Katniss, I would have felt like my reaction was being cheapened by having it compared to being drunk.

    Plus, as we saw in Twilight (OHGOD WHY DOES IT EXIST?), kisses can be construed as sexually violent. It's really not Gale's intent nor his opinion that matters to Katniss, but rather how she feels about it. And I feel like since she didn't consent or dissent, Gale was in the wrong. He was pushing what /he/ wanted on her, and then getting all pissy when his ego got a bit bruised.

    • erin says:

      Doesn't Gale have a say in whether or not the kiss counted to him? He was involved too, it didn't *just* happen to Katniss.

      Sorry, I'm just kind of annoyed at how many people are acting like the kiss flowchart goes from Gale —> Katniss, and not both ways.

      • pennylane27 says:

        Of course it's both ways, the problem is that it reads as if he's explaining her own feelings to her, and that's a bit patronising. Sure, she's confused, but that doesn't mean she can't decide for herself if a kiss counts or not. I don't think that Gale is horrible, I think he goes about this whole situation the wrong way.
        That being said, I could be totally misreading this.

        • erin says:

          I didn't see it as Gale explaining Katniss' own feelings to her, I saw it as him explaining /his/ feelings to her. He didn't say "You are confused. Therefore, you don't feel any particular emotion about this kiss." He said, more or less, "You are confused (And I think this is a fair statement for him to make – she DID just come out and say she didn't know what she thought about kissing him). Therefore, to me it feels like this kiss doesn't count."

          What he means by "doesn't count" is open to interpretation. It'll mean different things to different people, but I understood it to mean that she was not kissing him for the same reason he was kissing her.

      • Kal says:

        Basically what i was trying to get out was that, if I were in the conversation, I would feel so weird. Maybe I'd be misunderstanding things, but that wouldn't exactly erase that uncomfortableness.

  46. coughdrop says:

    Regarding Gale and the possibly drunk kissing:

    His reaction bothers me as one of those catch-22s of being a female. Like I am just as annoyed that he's all "oooh it might be drunk kissing! I know best, Katniss" as I would be if he just all out took advantage of her.

    It's the same reason I get annoyed when men do not acknowledge that women get constantly cat-called on the street but I get equally annoyed when men insist that I must absolutely be walked home. I never know how to properly articulate these feelings though so if anyone has any insight, let me know….

    • momigrator says:

      I know exactly what you mean. I think both instances can be degrading if we allow them to be. I mean, when we get cat-called to it makes us feel like we are being treated like a prize instead of a human. I used to HATE that, but I came to a point in my life where I can acknowledge, "yes, I am beautiful, and I appreciate the fact that you notice." Instead of feeling like I need to show that their is more to me than just a body. And I think the ability to accept that comes with age and having men that DO treat us as equals. Then we don't feel the need to "prove" anything anymore so we can more easily dismiss that cat-calls or smile playfully instead of being offended or degraded. That's how my experience has gone, though.

      It's the same for being insisted on being walked home. I mean, that pretty much insinuates that we are incapable and are dependent on a man to walk us home. And again, we feel the need to prove that we are equals instead of something inferior. Again, I think we can come to a point where instead of taking it as a sign that we are incapable, we can receive it as the fact that this person cares about us and wants to spend more time with us.

      I think as women we often feel we need to prove ourselves as independent, capable, intelligent beings with more than just a pretty face or nice body, and that once we get to a place emotionally where we no longer feel we need to "prove" something, we can then appreciate chivalry or cat-calls. I draw the line at cat-calls or comments, if the guy tries to grab my ass, that's never appropriate unless it's with someone I've clearly encouraged.

      Those are just my thoughts, and how I've dealt with these things over time.

      • paulineparadise says:

        I don't mind being walked home, but maybe that's just me.

        A girl was raped a few blocks from here during the night, so if a guy I know offers to walk me home, I'm glad that he wants to. If you know the guy and know he's a good bloke, it just means he wants to protect you, no? (Or kiss you. Whatever…)

    • Saber says:

      To me, wanting to walk a girl home means he's hoping for a kiss. Or just wants to spend more time with you. I walk my friends everywhere, even if it's out of the way, to spend those extra few minutes and show I care.

    • notemily says:

      It makes sense. Insisting on walking you home implies that you need protection and reinforces the rape culture bullshit that says that women aren't allowed to go anywhere alone because they might be raped.

      • Pseudonymph says:

        Exactly. There's a famous feminist quote in response to a man who offered to walk a woman home to "protect her". She responded, "Yes, but who will protect me from you?" I wish I could remember who said it.

      • Pk9 says:

        I don't walk people home since I live in Los Angeles and we drive everywhere, but when I drop someone off I ALWAYS stay until I see them safely inside their door. And that's regardless of gender. To me it's not an issue of women being weaker or any of that, it's simply that two is safer than one. Also I want to make sure they don't have an issue with maybe not having their keys or something like that and getting locked out.

  47. Johnnemann says:

    “Think of it as a wild dog den,” Gale continues. “You’re not going to fight your way in. So you have two choices. Trap the dogs inside or flush them out.”

    I think this is the key to Gale's thinking. He's gone so far as to be-humanize his enemies, to make them, in his mind, less than people and only deserving as much moral consideration as he gives to animals – vicious, predatory animals.

    Obviously this is something that's been a giant problem throughout history, and remains one today – when we dehumanize our enemies, we remove any moral barriers to acts like torture and genocide, killing civilians or violating other 'rules of war'.

    Gale's previous bright idea, of triggering bombs that attract people to help the innocent, then killing them, would violate the Geneva Conventions rather egregiously.

  48. attack_womb says:

    there is a difference between having a few drinks, and kissing someone you might not have if sober vs being date-raped by someone while incapacitated by alcohol. i think what gale is referring to is the first situation – it's not so much that it isn't consensual as that it's not necessarily genuine.

  49. Kaci says:

    I of course preference this by saying that everyone's experience is different and I in no way speak for anyone but myself. So this is entirely my opinion.

    I read the "kissing someone who is drunk" line not to mean someone who is completely, utterly wasted and unable to make their own decisions, but rather someone who is a little tipsy and wakes up the next morning going, "ugh, I can't believe I slept with _____! What was I thinking?" In which case, I would say yes, it is equivalent to being confused about one's feelings, as being slightly tipsy confuses the issue of what you want–or are willing to settle for.

    If, however, I take it to mean actually off-one's-face drunk, then I would have a problem with the comparison because the two things would then not be equivalent.

    For whatever reason anyone might care to know, I am a woman and a rape survivor. This in no way means my opinion is any more valid than anyone else's, I am simply stating it for the record.

  50. t09yavorski says:

    If I remember correctly it wasn't manmade conflicts (at least not majorly) but environmantal, 2012 style disasters. I remember Katniss is the first book talking about floods and storms.

  51. potlid007 says:

    Gale is so freaking preoccupied about this. KEEP IT IN YA PANTS.
    He's like Harry. When something bad happens, it's always about Voldemort killing his parents. For Gale, it always comes back to his relationship with Katniss.

    Katniss got picked for the Hunger Games
    <img src="; border="0" alt="Photobucket">

    Katniss comes back and has to pretend to love Peeta
    <img src="; border="0" alt="Photobucket">

    Katniss eats a piece of bread
    <img src="; border="0" alt="Photobucket">

    Katniss goes back into the Hunger Games
    <img src="; border="0" alt="Photobucket">

    Katniss has be the leader of a movement she isn't sure she wants to be a part of.
    <img src="; border="0" alt="Photobucket">

    Peeta comes back and tries to kill Katniss.
    <img src="; border="0" alt="Photobucket">


  52. shelly says:

    And this is where I start to really dislike gale. forget the kiss…I mean, whatever, she is just not that into you. let’s talk about his plan for the mountain. Please bear in mind the books have already talked about how the human population barely survived the civil war and is pretty much at barely subsistence level now. Not to mention you will have to live with these people when the war is over to build a new society. I thought the point of the uprising was to stop the killing of innocents ala the hunger games? But gale is all, no let’s trap them inside and let them suffocate to death. militaristic isn’t a strong enough word. He is acting…cold. That’s kit, he’s cold. You can say war makes that a necessity, but compare this with peeta’s assertion he would not lose himself before their first hunger games. Peeta would never go along with this plan. And katness, for all her weird emotions, is not a cold person. She truly cares for other people. This is all to say Peeta ftw and gale please stfu before you destroy all the citizens of panem.

  53. BradSmith5 says:

    Oh man, Gringotts. Only Rowling would describe a location SIX books before it ever became important. Thank you, Collins, for putting your description of "The Nut" in a relevant place. I paid attention to every detail here, while I was left clawing my face off back in Rowling's books. "Harry's walking through a building! Be fascinated!" Sure, many of Rowling's places served an eventual purpose, but why was I expected to care hundreds of pages before? Skip all the Districts you want, Collins!

    Now I must be off; there are so many witty jokes about this chapter that my brother must be made aware of. 😉

    • Mauve_Avenger says:

      I'm the exact opposite. I keep clawing at my face whenever Collins decides to include a detail that Katniss apparently noticed much earlier but didn't mention because it wasn't immediately relevant to the story. I think that Harry Potter could've gotten away with that (though being a big fan of Chekhov's gun, I wouldn't have wanted it to), given that it's written in third person and past tense, but I tend to think there's less excuse when you're writing in first person present where a character is supposed to be narrating what they experience as they experience it (seemingly extraneous details and all).

      It felt to me like Collins intentionally kept the Victory Tour part of Catching Fire as vague as humanly possible because she hadn't decided what was going to happen in the last book and needed to keep all her options open. There are some books written that way where it doesn't really show; Garth Nix wrote his Old Kingdom series that way, and though there are seemingly some continuity mistakes there are relatively few places where the novels get noticeably more vague.

      If I had seen Katniss and Peeta watching the video of Commander Lyme competing in the Hunger Games over thirty years ago, I actually would've cared. As it's written in this chapter? Not so much.

      • BradSmith5 says:

        Yeah, that thing with Lyme WAS odd. Why would Katniss have watched a video featuring someone that she wouldn't be competing against? She also didn't mention watching Beetee's win with the wire until way after the point where it would have been a surprise. What other examples of "Forgotten Foreshadowing" are there? Sorry, I don't know what TV Tropes calls this. It isn't something anyone likes to see anyway, I think. 😉

        I've never read that Garth Nix series. Although I'm almost MORE impressed when an author can make a continuous story work WITHOUT a plan!

        • Mauve_Avenger says:

          To be fair, I think there was a space between the announcement of the Quarter-Quell-tribute-recycling-program and the announcement of which tributes would be competing, so it would make sense that Katniss and Peeta would watch Lyme's tape in that period in between.

          I don't think there's a TV Tropes term for that technique specifically, but it's pretty closely related to what the site refers to as an "Ass Pull."

          • BradSmith5 says:

            Aw shoot––you're right. Here it is, right in the middle of that Chapter 13 montage: "Every night we watch the old recaps of the Games that the remaining victors won."

            Man, I guess that Bella's pregnancy is going to have to be lonely forever on the "Ass Pull" page. 🙁

      • Phoebe says:

        agreed. like delly had to be in district 13 the whole time but she was convieniently left out until that part. it bothers me so much.

    • thatonegirl says:

      Are you going to share your witty jokes?

  54. valely199 says:

    I think that the kissing thing comes down to Gale – if he was taking advantage of her, knowing that she was emotionally compromised, then it would have been wrong; as shown, though, he was aware that she wasn't really together and so he let it go.
    As a woman, specifically one who has kissed people while sad/confused/lonely, I can safely say that it is a very different situation than normally; I wasn't thinking straight, and had I not been feeling those emotions, would not have kissed him. That said, it's a different kind of "out of it" than when drunk – in my experience, drunk kisses aren't as much to fill a need as to fill a moment. Either way, Gale was right to back off.

  55. Liza says:

    From the female perspective of having many a stupid kiss while drunk, I'm ok with Gale on this one. What I interpreted it as was that it doesn't count for *him*, that the kiss had less meaning to her than to him, that his feelings for her don't go both ways; in that sense, the kiss was full of emotion for him, but for her it was as if she was just drunk and felt like making out.

    For example: say you met drunk Hagrid in the Hog's Head, and he was havin a gooood time and laughingly stumbled over to you and gave you a kiss. Now we – knowing your love of all things Hagrid – would see you as Gale and Hagrid as Katniss: the kiss would be full of meaning to you, whereas Hagrid was just drunk and lookin for a little action.

    The thing I disagree with is that Katniss isn't drunk and looking for a random hookup. She is honestly confused about her feelings and the war and the sense of hopelessness that she has throughout the novels. I don't think anyone is taking advantage/being taken advantage of. Remember they are just teenagers, and they're dealing with a *lot*, and one way teenagers can deal with crazy in their life is through physical contact (adults do it too, but we tend to get drunk and sleep with people, not just make out).

    Just a little food for thought.

  56. nanodragora says:

    Alright, here's my take on the whole consent issue:

    Being "confused" is NOT the same as being drunk. To me, that means that anyone with a mental illness can not consent to anything, because they are not properly emotionally balanced. And personally, that's…really shitty. I detest anything which takes power away from those with mental health problems, because it's really easy to excuse whatever someone says with "they don't mean that; they're not right in the head." Have a mental illness, and suddenly no one takes anything you say or believe seriously. It sucks.

    That being said, Gale knows Katniss, and he knows that she's having a hard time at the moment. He's seen what she's like when she's stable, and can clearly see that she is not currently at her best. (Understatement.) Of course with what she's been through she may never make a full recovery, but I believe that in his eyes he would not want to take advantage of her until she's found some stable ground to stand on.

    I don't think it was right of him to retroactively decide that a kiss didn't count, however. Make up your mind whether you think something is alright before the act, not after. You can't have sex with someone and say "we were drunk; it doesn't count." Well you could, but you'd be an asshole. You can't take away something that has already happened. All you can do is deal with the consequences and work hard to make sure it never happens again. I respect that Gale has decided to not pursue Katniss while she is in this state (at least, I hope he has decided that), but it doesn't mean that the kiss didn't happen for either of them. Look before you leap, Gale.

    Still, I don't fault Collins for this one. I think this is all her character talking.

    • BradSmith5 says:

      Thank you so much, Nanodragon! If only you could go into the story and spread your wisdom around. <3<3

  57. Caty B says:

    The whole "it's like kissing someone who drunk" thing bothers me from the standpoint that if you're kissing someone, and it's good, are you thinking about anything other than that kiss? All she would be thinking about in that moment would be the present because she's attempting to block everything else out. I mean, I get that Gale wants this wonderful relationship with Katniss, but even he just admitted that things can't ever go back to normal. It's simply impossible. And by kissing her, he forces himself into position as rebound boy.

    How many drunk girls have you been hooking up with, Gale?? You're so skeeeezy.

  58. LittleCaity says:

    Huh. Okay, two cents on Gale time.

    That comment is so utterly what the fuck I'm actually having difficulty in describing my reaction because I do not understand it myself. The very first thought that hit me was "Are you fucking KIDDING me, Gale!"

    Now I know that values down here where I live (I'm in a very traditional city called Launceston in Tasmania, the island under Victoria for those non-Aussies) tend to be somewhat different from the world in general. Very much family values and civil rights down here, which is probably why we're so ticked off at our state government right now… If someone said that to a woman here, she would be completely and utterly justified in either belting him herself or asking for volunteers to do it for her.

    It's just… well. It's downright sexist, rude, condescending and just a liiiiiittle creepy. SHUT UP GALE, LET THE POOR GIRL BE CONFUSED FFS SHE IS SUFFERING.

  59. vampira2468 says:

    I actually liked how Gale reacted.

    • paulineparadise says:

      When I read the book, I could understand why he'd think of it. I might even approved of it. (DON'T JUDGE ME I DON'T THINK WHEN I READ A BOOK. I used to like Twilight until someone *Mark* made me understand that it's utter bullshit.)

  60. duckrebel says:

    I never even considered Gale's "It's like kissing someone who's drunk" comment as being about consent, simply because he describes it as "not counting." I think it's more like he's talking about the emotions behind the kisses. There aren't clear emotions behind what Katniss is doing, therefore they don't count as the kind of kisses he wants from her.

  61. Lynn says:

    Possible unpopular opinion here:

    I kind of feel like people sometimes give Gale nefarious motives that he might not have. I, like so many of you are disturbed by the course of hatred and violence that he seems to be embracing. It is making me sad and disappointed in him even though I understand why he is like this. He is realistically bitter and jaded. It is understandable but not justifiable in my opinion (which is in a privileged seat of safety in America).

    But just because he is making a slew of bad decisions, does not mean that everything he does is completely suspect. I do think that our human nature tendencies do come into play and thus Gale's reaction to the kissing has to be at least partially based on selfishness. We all have it at our core, and it is nearly impossible to separate it out completely. But I personally did not think that this was the main driving factor for ending the kiss. While I am sure his feelings are hurt at being arguably "used" by Katniss here I really believe that he is shutting something down before things get too carried away partially for Katniss too. That he is at least partly concerned the effects that this might have on her after the effect as she is still grieving Peeta's loss.

    Was I the only who thought that perhaps if he had not stopped things Katniss might have lost her virginity? It was possibly heading there. If he thinks that deep down she might regret that, then how is stopping things so bad? And even if Gale was worried about being hurt is that so evil? That he didn't want to be used by someone that he loved for the wrong reasons? I still don't think this is evil. I actually respected Gale's decision here. And I was happy to have something to respect him for because he is really worrying me in the hatred of those he views as enemies.

    So I guess what I am saying is that I might not approve of some of Gale's choices. I sure have not been a big fan of the anger he puts off on Katniss and have vocalized that before. But at the same time, I don't think that Gale is evil. Good people can make some really horrid choices, especially when they let their hearts get hardened with anger or hatred. So I really think that there is still a part of Gale that really cares for Katniss and is motivated mainly for that at times. Even if he is human and thus has those selfish human drives at his core like we all do.

  62. mag11 says:

    the rich and the privileged are generally living in a place that is literally higher than other people.

    Funny story. Some ~supah rich folks~ came and wanted to build a new house in my neighborhood. And by "house" I mean humungous mansion. But zoning rules prohibited their proposed height, so…they had to build it in a tiny little valley. A dip in the landscape. Every time you drive past it, all you can see is the roof.

    We call it the Castle in the Ditch.

  63. I wonder if the Nut is Norad? There are disturbing similarities, and I've seen steam coming from the shaft that could be the tunnel Gale is planning on DESTROYING WITHOUT ANY MORALS, ETHICS, OR MERCIES BECAUSE HE'S A BOOGER. ::cough:: Okay, I'm done.

  64. Revolution64 says:

    Never liked Gale. He seemed so phony to me.

  65. booksinbulk says:

    I've decided that like JKR, Collins must write an encyclopedia. Complete with maps, what each district is known for, the presidents of Panem and how they are "chosen," if that, what each and every Hunger Games entailed including the arenas, general play by play, who won and how, if there is life any where outside Panem and if so WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON IN THOSE PARTS OF THE WORLD, etc etc etc etc


    • pennylane27 says:


      This is why LOTR is so perfect for me. There's always more to read and learn.

  66. Phoebe says:

    I could understand why Gale would say it's like kissing someone who's drunk because he thinks that because she doesn't know what she feels it's the same as not really knowing what you're doing. However, I disagree and I think that by saying she didn't know how she felt it was actually good. If she said something positive it would be kind of heartless because Peeta is sitting in District Thirteen literally bound to a table or something. If she said something negative it would obviously be bad. Saying she didn't know, which was probably true anyway, was the best thing to do.

  67. Ana says:

    I do not think Gale is taking advantage of her so much as trying to connect with her in one of the few moments that they have alone. But the kiss fails. In the Quarter Quell on the beach, Katniss had let Gale go when she kissed Peeta and felt her connection with him.
    Here, it is the first time ever she is kissing Gale after "completely" letting Peeta go but essentially comparing it against her feelings for Peeta, both romantic and emotional. She needs both of these kisses to confirm a choice. This kiss does not compare to the kiss with Peeta in the Quarter Quell . I think this lack of romantic connection with Gale is then later purposefully connected in the same chapter with her moral disconnect with him when she sees that he is so willing to sacrifice human life as opposed to the Peeta moral view which is to preserve life.
    Also, Gale would have seen the Quarter Quell kisses and would know that these are not the same. Gale is proud and perhaps is trying to weakly dismiss it as "not counting" as his way of not wanting to accept the fact that she is not choosing him on any level with the "drunk" comment just being an unfortunate choice in wording.

  68. gunslingerpadme says:

    I'm going to go ahead and focus on the kissing between Katniss and Gale. I get that. I get that so much that I think Collins went into my head a bit and stole it. The moment is to loose yourself completely. Think back to Catching Fire when Katniss drinks with Haytmith, There are these emotions you don't want to face at all, and you drown them with something else. She's feeling alone, and hurt, and confused, and one basic emotion you think you understand is basic human contact. When I've been upset, and emotional torn and drained by something, I've reached out for that warm human contact. In this case, Katniss turns to the only person she knows she can, and that's Gale. There's no deeper emotion there. It's an escape. Gale, it seems, wants something more than her wanting to escape the moment, and he calls her on it. She's confused, because she has so much to deal with, between Peeta, the war, and everyone using her to their own ends., Gale is trying to battle the Capital on his own levels, but still has these mixed feelings for Katniss. All emotions that when mixed with a kiss motivated by wanted to escaped don't make for what they really want: a kissed based on love and all that.

    That's just my two cents.

  69. Inessa says:

    Re my previous comment (which is not appearing) I am not in Gale's position either, but my husband was in the special forces in the army, and the one time I saw him experience a sort of flashback, was when we watched Blackhawk Down. Fighting in those claustophobic conditions, being surrounded and cornered by masses who are technically civilians, but who lynch those soldiers all the same. Neither have I been amongs innocent people who were being bombed, but my parents in law were bunkered down in their flat in the North of Israel, while heavy missiles were flying around them. The building next door collapsed from a missile hit. We were actually on the phone to them during one of the attacks. So, I do feel I have some perspective, on both sides.

    • Inessa says:

      Perhaps the rhetoric of how far is too far in case of war, had its place before they committed to wage war on the Capitol. They should remember who their enemies are, but they also need to know their enemy, and what their enemy is likely to do. This doesn't mean they need to commit the atrocities the Capitol commits, but in war, different tactics have to apply to the ways of the enemy to some extent. The Capitol all but dessimated D13 due to them rebelling. In response to district 8's rebellion (which did not actually make a particularly big impact), the Capitol killed masses of rebels, and completely innocent people, including children. The Capitol burned District 12, when district 12 had not rebelled, and were not at war with them. The Capitol struck district 13, along with all its citizens including children, without much cosideration of the ethics. The rebels have invaded district 2, not the other way around. What Gale is suggesting, is hard to digest, but what would the Capitol do to the rebels if they don't secure district 2, and the Capitol regains control? Would everything go back to some semblance of normality? Last time the rebellion failed, district 13 was dessimated, and the Hunger Games were born.

    • xpanasonicyouthx says:

      Hey, I have no idea why your comment went into the moderation queue, but I just approved it.

      Let me read through this and I shall respond!

      • Inessa says:

        Thanks. Was it the "unpopular opinion" bit?

        • xpanasonicyouthx says:

          No, I can't possibly imagine WHAT it was.

          Anyway, sorry I got distracted yesterday so I didn't get a chance to address this. First of all, if I didn't communicate well enough that I am certainly not equivocating Gale with the Capitol, my bad. That's my fault. Despite the parallel, they're not the same and Gale could never oppress or harm the Capitol with the same gusto, force, or power as the Capitol. It's just impossible.

          I come from a military family. My dad fought in Vietnam. So, like you, my experience with that is peripheral. I never criticized anything my dad did in war and if it seems I'm doing that here in a dismissive way, my bad again. I think that stating that it's overkill is not that impossible of a judgment to make. I guess I feel like that's the entire point of what he's doing, isn't it?

          But you're right. This situation is not black and white and there's no easy answer to all of this.

  70. erin says:

    Yes, it is. I think Gale raises some fair points on the subject, too, but I don't remember if that's in this chapter or the next, so I won't elaborate.

  71. Took says:

    I have always been out of the loop on the Coin jokes (aka "When the time comes I'll flip you for it," went straight over my head). I realized today the reason I never said "coin" in my head: COIN stands for counter-insurgency. Now looking at the rebellion…insurgency…in a whole new light. Nicely played Collins, nicely played.

  72. theanagrace says:

    I unfortunately don't have time to read all the other opinions about Gale's "kissing someone who's drunk" remark yet (because I am at work, and should technically be, you know, working). I'll hopefully have time to read them tomorrow, because I want to see how everyone else's opinions match up with mine.
    I have actually had both experiences to some extent. The first was when I was in grade 10, I had been flirting with a boy in my class, talking to him on msn for hours, basically trying to get him to ask me out. The fall dance was coming up, and I told him I was going with my friends, and I was hoping to see him there (even though it was really not his thing). I tried everything except blatantly telling him I wanted him to ask me to the dance, because I was 15 and had never had a boyfriend I couldn't bring myself to ask him. He didn't go to the dance, but when I was there, another boy, a year above me, pulled me aside and asked me to be his girlfriend. I was so confused. I hadn't known this other boy liked me, I had never been asked out before, and a mutual friend of mine told me I should accept, because he really liked me etc etc. (continued)

    • theanagrace says:

      It took me over an hour to come to a decision, and I still wasn't comfortable with it. I accepted the second boy, and agreed to be his girlfriend. I then had to go home and explain to my crush that I had gone to the dance and come back with a boyfriend that wasn't him. I felt awful. I should have taken a step back and told the second boy I couldn't answer him while I was confused, but I felt pressured, and in the end, made a decision that hurt 3 people.
      A year later, after my relationship with the second boy had failed, and so had the ensuing relationship with boy 1, my friends and I went to a party. We all got very drunk, and I ended up crashing next to a guy I was moderately familiar with, and that, up until that point, I trusted. He woke me up later in the night, and started kissing me. I was still intoxicated, I don't know how sober he was, but I at least knew enough to prevent him from climbing on top of me. The next morning, I felt awful. Sober, I wouldn't have made out with that guy. I don't blame him for taking advantage of me, but I also didn't trust being around him while either of us were intoxicated. (continued again)

      • theanagrace says:

        Looking back on both of these situations now, I regret the first one more. I was young, and confused and I didn't know enough about dating to realize I could tell both guys I wanted to take a step back and think about it. When I made that decision, I hurt more people for longer than when I made out while drunk. I'm not saying I don't regret having a teenage boy slobber on me and make me uncomfortable when I was wasted, and the situation could have ended up infinitely worse if I hadn't had some sense of self-preservation. Both of these situations taught me valuable life lessons, and while I may regret what happened, I have also learned from them. I have learned that if I'm confused about something, I can stop and think things through before I choose, and I also learned how to be more vigilant at parties.

        tl;dr – Basically, I have had times in my life where I have made just as bad decisions from being confused as from being drunk. I still don't like Gale's phrasing, but I understand his logic.

        • momigrator says:

          I think we all make dating blunders at those ages, and instead or "regretting" them per se, I appreciate the fact that I've learned from them. I think it's important to make our own mistakes and have our own feelings hurt, because that is the best way to learn. If you have your heart-broken, you appreciate love that much more. If you've broken someones heart, you know what to look out for so you don't cause someone that pain again. If you've done both, you practice caution in love, and respect people that much more than you ever could if you had experienced neither. That's how it's gone for me, anyway. Although I'm not "happy" about the situations I've been in and experienced, I am ultimate very grateful for the insight I've gained.

          • theanagrace says:

            That is beautifully written and eloquent. 😀 I think we should put it on a bookmark and hand it out to everyone.

  73. Blaze says:

    Since others have been placing the districts, I figured I should get mine out. Soooo…
    Capitol: Colorado. I know the Rockies stretch further, but I immediately pictured Colorado, so I decided to put it there.
    1: I don't really know. On my map it's in the Nebraska area, but that's really because that area was empty, so it hardly counts.
    2: Montana Rockies. I pictured District 2 colder, and thought Montana would work.
    3: Once again, don't know. It's electronics, so it doesn't have a specific region.
    4: California. It has a warmer climate, since Finnick is usually shirtless, and of course it needs to be on the coast, so this works.
    5: Utah/Arizona. The industry is unknown, so it really could be anywhere, but I decided it was in a dryer climate for no reason except that I thought it fit.
    6: Arkansas/Mississippi. It needs to be close enough to District 12 to walk there, and since the industry is unknown, anywhere works (although it may be too far from 12, but we don't know how long Bonnie and Twill were walking so it might still work).
    7: Alberta. I may be getting this wrong, but I heard somewhere else that there are a lot of trees in that area. Sorry if I'm wrong.
    8: Could really be anywhere.
    9: From what I've heard elsewhere, this district seems to be hunting, so… somewhere with animals?
    10: Wisconsin. It IS the livestock district, after all.
    11: Florida. It's warm there year-round, and Florida has orchards.
    12: West Virginia. Suzanne Collins gives Katniss a Southern accent, and I picture that area when I think of Appalachia.
    13: New York. It just makes sense to have a large underground area under such a large urban area. Also, subways, anyone?

    Okay, some of these make no sense looking back, but I'll leave them as is because I have no other ideas.

  74. mag11 says:

    It is not a privelege to have never been assaulted. It's a right.

  75. iolchos says:

    quick comment while I read over the whole thing: I guess the mountain/rich parallel never occurred to me because….I grew up in Colorado? So literally, EVERYONE lives in the mountains. (Ditto, that's where the military bases were: in the mountains). I only really saw the mountains as a military choice, honestly (and as a parallel to the hills protecting Rome), that the Capitol residents would want to take refuge (in book 1 Katniss mentions that in the first rebellion, the mountains were a barrier)

    • momigrator says:

      I disagree, I lived in a valley in Colorado and we were a poor area, as you went into the mountain, you began to see the richer homes and towns.

  76. Pk9 says:

    Interesting, when I first read this I didn't really focus too much on the kissing aspect, but instead I found this to be worth writing down:

    “Outside of Prim, my mother and Gale, how many people in the world love me unconditionally? I think in my case, the answer may now be none.” Oh Katniss, counting non-broken!Peeta, that makes four. Having four people in the world love you unconditionally is at the minimum on the high side of average, if not exceptionally high. That’s life.

  77. Pk9 says:

    And now, my two cents on the consent issue. I think it's a tricky thing to define exactly the point when "ability to consent" is lost. Especially with the mental health issue. I really think if every American was evaluated for all mental health issues the majority would have at least one "disease" at a minor level. Does this immediately make them incapable of consent? What about other things that can compromise your mental capacity? Alcohol and drugs, of course. But what about hormones and pheromones? Why do people put on cologne and perfume? To make themselves more sexually attractive to a potential mate. So perhaps that might push someone over the edge to consent when they might not have if the other person had smelled normal. Or if their hormones weren't raging at that moment. And so forth.

    If you have sex with a sex addict, does that mean you raped that person?

  78. helenablythe says:

    Late to the game, so this is probably out there a dozen times already and better than I said it, but…

    I'm going to venture a guess that what Gale (or Collins via Gale) means by referring to drunkenness in relation to their kiss would be what he can take from it. IF she was kissing him with her whole heart and mind at that moment, THEN he could then take from it that she's making some sort of declaration/commitment to him about her feelings. But since she doesn't know how she feels, she can't give him that. Just like a drunk/high/knocked out girl's (or guy's) 'consent' isn't really…consent. He could use their kiss as a way to bind her to him. To remind her in the future that "Oh hey — remember when we made out? You know you want me, not him, because you did that." Something which would make him Jacob Black. Oh, sorry. Didn't quite mean to go there… But Gale doesn't. He chooses to give her the courtesy of not foisting his own interpretation onto their time together, but leave it on Katniss's terms.

    I don't think this necessarily has to be a gender-based issue, but rather is more an issue of how clarity of thought leads to consent/commitment/etc. Clarity of thought is often lost or dismissed in issues of the heart. I appreciate your choice to not mansplain, but I think it's a broader issue — not something entrenched in 'girl-ness'. Just human-ness.

  79. trash_addict says:

    Oh gosh, four pages of comments. I'm a little late to the convo today. But, probably to repeat what plenty of others have said, in my head this is not really a 'consent' issue. I don't think that's what Gale means – I think in his head it means he's realised that the implications of those kisses re: their relationship that he might have made if she was in full control of her, y'know, faculties, just don't count in this situation. Whatever reason she might be kissing him, it isn't because of her romantic feelings which might, say, lead to the relationship he wants with her.

    Short story: it's not that the act doesn't count, but the feelings/reasons behind it.
    And the analogy? It's a little like how a drunk person might just kiss any old person, just because they feel like kissing and don't have their usual inhibitions.

  80. mrsaddante says:

    I was simply trying to make the point that "just drunk enough to do something that they might not have done a few beers earlier" as the OP stated is THE SAME as "someone who is too drunk to consent." If someone is compromised to the point where their actions go against what they would do sober, then they are too drunk to consent. The OP was trying to say otherwise, and that is a dangerous way of thinking.

    • erin says:

      I see what you're saying, but I still don't quite agree. I am a shy person. Sober, I would not walk up to someone and start a conversation with them. After a beer or two, I would. Just because I'm doing something that I would not do sober doesn't automatically mean that I am incapable of giving consent to anything else. I might be acting more boldly than usual, but I would still consider myself within the realm of rational decision making. It might not be a huge distinction, but it's there.

  81. Many Rainbows says:

    Being confused about feelings is not the same as the inability to consent, right?

    From my experience, correct. I know my experience =/= everyone else's experience, but when you are simply confused about your feelings, your mind is still free enough to say "no" or "stop" if you feel uncomfortable. when drunk or high, your brain is not as clear and you cannot think logically. when it comes to stuff like kissing (or more) its more of your body in control, rather than your mind, which can result in you doing things you regret later when you can look back and think about what happened.

  82. clodia_risa says:

    Late I know, but yes – that section about drunken kisses not counting is TOTALLY NOT COOL.

  83. Alex says:

    Ugh Gale is getting so bloodthirsty
    I still love him, but seriously he needs to chill with the killing

  84. Stephanie says:

    When I started this series, I actually liked Gale and felt sorry for him. But it waas this point in the novel that my opinion changed. It had been coming for a while and this chapter finally did it for me. I can't stand the character's (and people, for that matter) who believe that because one person does somethine wrong, it's okay for them to do it. You can't fight fire with fire Gale! Even if it was for the rebellion, it's still wrong to murder innocent people.

  85. Howlynn says:

    “Then it’s like kissing someone who’s drunk. It doesn’t count,” he says with a weak attempt at a laugh.

    oK? Seriously?

    This is where I decided that Gale is the Mutt. See He isn’t a real boy.(or he was sooo written by a chick –I am a chick and though I do not own boy parts I do kind of understand the basics —evil grin)

    A real boy does not smoochy a girl still packing a V-card — get the appropriate response from her and then demand to know what SHE is doing.

    Then when she says she does not know —— (which is of course the truth because she’s V-card packing) turn around and blow off girl with a BS line about how NOT being up to speed on the Hook-up train means that She is like a drunk.
    She wasn’t actually drinking –she was 100% capable of choosing to proceed or hault — but Not-a-real-boy gets offended that he has her a little off kilter and unsure what to say? (Not-a-real-boy can NOT be the ladies man he’s played back in 12)
    Katniss — girl… go kiss Finnick or Haymitch — I promise you will find a real boy either spot who will be happy to show you the ropes or get you ACTUALLY drunk and assist you in Unpacking that horrible card that has allowed us to see every kind of perverted thing ever EVER stuck in a kiddie book EXCEPT — sex portrayed in a loving kind sweet way. (to be included in this world — it must be forced, underage, or paid for)
    So let us review — there was a boy who ate other tributes, a boy who lost his face to mutts eating him for hours but he could not die, a little girl stabbed painfully in the stomach, a woman who chewed opponents throats out to kill them, A kid who was being chased by a bloody one eyed girl while his intestines fell out of his body, a boy who is gentle has to finish off a crying girl, a man/boy is strapped to a post and the flesh is whipped off his body, 7000 people burned to death, injured people in a putrid hospital full of stinky dead people bombed before our eyes, The hint that if Haymitch had not started the rebellion V-card girl would have not had to worry about consent, girls selling themselves to a peackeeper for a little bread, V-card girl asked to stand naked for a stranger to LOOK at her and we love him, and my favorite — an 80 year old woman put into the murder palace who has to commit suicide to save the others.
    We have suicide pills, war, prostitution, and violence out the WAzooooo…………but if Katniss had hooked up because she wanted to —- this place would be terrible???

    So we have Gale have to jump through the nut cracker while becoming the male equivalent to Avox-boy — all to preserve sister Mary-Katniss of the clueless?

    And this scene being a little off from anyones perspective — boy/ girl/other ——– is possibly the big deal? Of course happy sex is scarier than ——-well The only thing I can think of not in the book is torture — oh wait — IN there…….eating people – check, burning people – check, child murder and molesting — check check……..starving,freezing, hacking, smashing with rocks, crushing in mines, a whole song about hanging, blackmail, fetishes, —————— ghosts! This book has no ghosts —- whew. Glad I found something else off limits…..LOL.

    This was the most horrible boy encounter Ever. Puppy around for two and a half books — get her in your arms and HE backs out? Only one reason that could be real —–Gale found someone who —-well — isn’t wearing a V shaped crown of glory and she must have caught his eye about that time. Time for a fast exit….hehehe.

  86. Hanh says:

    Is this how far he's willing to go? Commit murder in the name of rebellion?
    Well this is war so yeah. I think Gale is overkilling here but your comment just made me wut?

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