In the fourteenth chapter of The Amber Spyglass, Will and Lyra make their way to Iorek Byrnison, who has reservations about helping Will with his problem. Intrigued? Then it’s time for Mark to read The Amber Spyglass.
CHAPTER FOURTEEN: KNOW WHAT IT IS
I honestly don’t know where things can go from here. I can’t shake the feeling that something is wrong with the fact that Father Gomez still hasn’t made an appearance, and now it’s clear he’s not showing up any time soon, even though he’s pursuing Mary. Plus, I’m slightly distracted by how well some of this is going for Will and Lyra. They wake to discover that the Church has retreated and Mrs. Coulter has been captured. They’re safe, as far as I’m concerned. For now. The alethiometer even confirms that there’s no danger in the valley. So they leave the parallel world to return to Lyra’s, and begin to travel to find Iorek. I enjoyed the fact that despite the imminent safety of their travels, they’re forced to walk through the remnants of the battle zone from the day before. The wreckage of gyrocopters and zeppelins, charred corpses, “soot-black strips of cloth,‖they all litter the ground on the way out of the valley. This battle was all fought over Lyra. That has to be a weird thing to experience, by the way, and I was surprised Pullman didn’t say anything about it. I suppose there’s no time to really reflect on these things, though, because shit is getting so goddamn real. It feels like all of the worlds are starting to fall apart.
Plus, Lyra’s exhaustion is getting the better of her. I’m sure she’s excited to see Iorek, but the time she spent sleeping weakened her muscles and ruined her endurance. It bothers Lyra because she’s so used to be in charge and physically ready to do things like this. Her years at Jordan College essentially prepared her for this, but her mother’s actions have left her feeling useless.
While taking a break so Lyra can rest, Pullman actually takes the time to show us the lodestone operator, which had only been mentioned before. Lyra, her curiosity getting the better of her, asks how it works, and Chevalier Tialys drops some heavy quantum physics on us. I’m not entirely positive I understand how quantum entanglement actually works, though I did well in AP Physics in high school. I’m more interested in the fact that this actually correlates to something mentioned in the last chapter. Tialys had said something similar had happened in his world, making the Gallivespians “rebels,†and this is why they’d sought out Lord Asriel. What I’m wondering is if this also has to do with the Gallivespians’ pursuit of knowledge. If their form of communication utilizes a form of experimental physics, surely they had some type of science that brought them to that point, yes? I’m guessing we’re going to see the Authority’s influence in all worlds, and this will explain how Lord Asriel was able to assemble so many forces at his fortress.
My favorite moment of this chapter (and hell, one of the top ones for the whole book so far) is the glorious and emotional reunion between Iorek Byrnison and Lyra. I’d never really stopped to think that Lyra hasn’t seen him since they parted ways at the ice bridge back in The Golden Compass. That book seems so long ago. I think I was most touched by Iorek allowing Lyra to be physically affectionate with him. I don’t think the ice bears are particularly affectionate creatures, at least based on what we’ve seen.
And then Lyra asks about Lee Scoresby. GREAT. GREAT. Obviously, Lyra is destroyed by the knowledge, but even she can’t even conceive of the great Texan being dead. (Neither can I. PLEASE LET LYRA FIND HIM IN THE WORLD OF THE DEAD.)
Lyra was weeping freely, and Will didn’t know what to say, for it was his father whom this unknown man had died to save; and Lyra and the bear had both known and loved Lee Scoresby, and he had not.
Oh, damn it, THIS IS TOO SAD. Will he ever reveal this to Lyra? Probably not, I’m guessing.
As they all settle in Iorek’s cave and begin to cook meat, Iorek wonders what Lyra is going to do next. When Will starts to explain that he needs Iorek’s help, he stops and calls out to the Gallivespians, demanding they stop spying on them and just listen to the conversation “honestly.â€
It’s actually a fascinating scene because, as Lady Salmakia will soon explain, the idea of spying is ingrained in the lives of Gallivespians. So, to a point, I understand Chevalier Tialys’s utter fury and contempt for Will for saying this, and I get why they continue to spy. But I think it’s hilarious that Will was able to quickly pick up on what it is they do, and use it to (once again) gain the upper hand of the situation. Seriously, Will’s getting rather good at this.
Iorek then examines Will’s broken knife and confirms that he can do it; Lyra is quick to pick up on the fact that Iorek won’t say if he will do it.
“I don’t like that knife,†Iorek said. “I fear what it can do. I have never known anything so dangerous. The most deadly fighting machines are little toys compared to that knife; the harm it can do is unlimited. It would have been infinitely better if it had never been made.â€
“But with it–†began Will.
Iorek didn’t let him finish, but went on, “With it you can do strange things. What you don’t know is what the knife does on its own. Your intentions may be good. The knife has intentions, too.â€
Well, shit. I never even considered this. I’m not sure Iorek means the knife is a sentient thing, but we know the knife is meant to harm the Authority. I don’t know if it was designed that way, or if its meaning came to be over time. Will truly isn’t sure what the knife is supposed to do, nor everything it can do.
Good ol’ Lyra to the rescue. She reasons–rather brilliantly, I might add–that even if there are negative intentions associated with the creation of the knife, not using it will only guarantee the suffering and misery in the world. At the very least, Will has pure, good intentions for the knife, and surely he could saw things in the right direction, which is much better than doing nothing at all. Lyra makes an offer: She’ll ask the alethiometer so they can make an informed decision instead of a guess.
Iorek’s answer to this has my favorite sentence in the whole book (so far):
“But full knowledge is better than half-knowledge.â€
Ain’t it the truth, Iorek. So he agrees, and Lyra begins to read the alethiometer. Which acts confused. Ok, so we know Lyra is actually speaking to the rebel angels, right? WHY WOULD THEY BE CONFUSED ABOUT THIS? I don’t understand this at all. I get that the moral balance of the knife is precarious, but what else about this is so uncertain?
We learn what that is when Will and Lyra slip away from the others to search for fuel:
“It said some things I didn’t understand then and I still don’t understand now. It said the knife would be the death of Dust, and then it said it was the only way to keep Dust alive. I didn’t understand it, Will. But it said again it was dangerous, it kept saying that. It said if we–you know–what I thought–â€
“If we go to the world of the dead–â€
“Yeah–if we do that–it said we might never come back, Will. We might not survive.â€
WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON. I am so completely lost at this point. I mean, how can the knife kill the angels but keep them alive? What? And what is so terrible about the world of the dead? Even worse, the alethiometer gave Lyra a sense of emptiness and blankness when she asked what would happen if they didn’t go to the world of the dead.
Seriously, I don’t get it. I don’t feel any shame in stating that, but it must be said. I am thoroughly confused about all of this.
What I do know for certain is that the trip to the world of the dead is necessary for this story, and that Will needs that knife to be repaired. The end of chapter fourteen is when both Will and Lyra are the most vulnerable they’ve ever been with each other, the point where it’s painfully obvious that they are just children in a fucked up situation. Will openly admits that he is afraid of never seeing his mother again. And he remembers a time when she did protect him, and he feels it is an almost a duty to return to her.
My heart, though, goes out to Lyra more than anyone, as she, too, opens up to Will, admitting that she grew up without any real parents, without any real affection or love from someone like that, and that it’s part of the reason why she was so sure her mother was actually caring for her and not lying.
I still don’t know what to think, but maybe there is some redemption for Mrs. Coulter and the end of this journey. Maybe.
———-
Make sure to check in on BridgeToTheStar’s contest for Mark Reads, where you can win a signed copy of The Amber Spyglass. They are also hosting this week’s spoiler thread for chapters 11-15.
Don't feel too bad about not understanding quantum entanglement. I have a BS in physics and I still don't really get it. Even Einstein and Schroedinger couldn't figure it out and to this day the "action at a distance" that the lodestone uses remains an unsolved paradox (information shouldn't be able to travel faster than the speed of light because nothing can travel faster than the speed of light). A whole bunch of theories have been proposed, but none has really been satisfactory.
Proposed definitive answers:
Love magic. Because vampires have extra chromosomes. 42.
Clearly 42.
I mean, duh.
IT'S MAGIC.
(I love when science comes up against the limits of its own understanding. It reminds me that though we may have charted the entire world on maps, there are still new things to explore.)
"A wizard did it" will always be my go-to answer.
This chapter is thoroughly confusing. I'm so apprehensive about the seemingly inevitable trip to the land of the dead. First, it's really hard to wrap my mind around that being an actual alternate universe–In my mind once you're dead you're dead, so somehow being somewhere, physically being somewhere is a really strange concept. Now we get the idea of it being really truly dangerous for Will and Lyra, and I'm on tenterhooks.
I agree with the dead is dead perspective.
I've been viewing this world of the dead a bit like the underworld from Greek mythology. All the dead go there regardless and the living can't enter. Or rather, they can enter but not leave again. I'm not sure how far Pullman will go with those similarities (I read this book a long time ago and all I really remember is liking the mulefa).
What's interesting to me is this ghost/daemon distinction. In most mythology I'm used to, it's the soul that lives on after the body is dead. Your soul goes to heaven or hell or whatever and lives there forever. But in this multiverse, the soul is the daemon and the it dies when the body dies. Instead your ghost, which appears to be something else entirely, is what lives on.
Yes, the three part distinction isn't something I'm used to and I'm interested in how it develops. I'm used to the idea of body and soul, but trying to conceive of a third part is difficult. I've heard it's not actually an idea unique to Pullman, but it's new to me. I'm definitely reminded of the Greek underworld.
I've been exposed to a brain/mind distinction that I think becomes relevant here. It gets used a lot to talk about AI. But basically you can think of your physical brain as the hardware (the motherboard, hard drive, and RAM of a computer) and the mind is the software (this is all of your thoughts and hopes and dreams and could be compared to any programs you run on your computer). Both are real, but only one is physical. Lyra was talking about Roger's ghost, which I think fits as the mind. This dichotomy ignores the soul because (we hope) computers don't have an equivalent. That might be a discussion for BSG, though.
Wow, what an interesting idea! I definitely can see a brain/mind distinction, but I hadn't really thought of it in this context. It does seem to fit pretty well. (I am not caught up on BSG yet, but I want to be.) As we go into the world of the dead I'm excited to see how this framework fits.
Perhaps the soul is the person using the computer? Computers can have all the fancy hardware and software they like, but if you don't input anything, they won't do anything with it.
Why should a daemon be the entirety of one's soul?
Also… Lyra and Will are following in the proud tradition of Greek heroes (kids, try to pull this off a little more like Hercules and a little less like Orpheus, okay?) in heading for a land of the dead.
Oh I hope neither of them pulls an Orpheus. That would be too heartbreaking to bear.
Or a Sisyphus for that matter.
Or a Psyche, for that matter!
[WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The poster sent us ‘0 which is not a hashcash value.
And what is so terrible about the world of the dead?
I'm not gonna lie, this made me giggle. Nothing, Mark, nothing at all! I'm sure its a happy place full of sunshine and armored bears.
Also, on a serious note, I think for me, there is no Lyra without Iorek, and also no true Iorek without Lyra. Sometimes you find life companions, quite apart from romance…. just someone who you will love forever, and whose presence completes you. This is what I see with Lyra and Iorek, and I am so happy they are together again!
Haha, yeah, it's okay to be completely confused at this point. Vague alethiometer answers are the best, aren't they?
God, I love Lyra and Iorek. His people might starve there in the mountains, but that's okay, because his mistake led him to Lyra. He's sweet for a furry death machine. <3 He also seems to be the wisest character in the book, as he understands that actions have consequences, even if you don't know what they are.
sweet for a furry death machine
Best album name ever?
I have a confession to make. Whilst I was on holiday, I was determined to stick to one chapter a day, even though I had no Internet access. Umm…yeah, that didn’t really happen. Ah well, I’ve failed yet again to read along. Mark, you have amazing willpower.
On the other hand, it means that I’m reminded of all these cryptic messages, and can go ‘oh, so THAT’S what it means’
I was so happy to see some Lyra POV paragraphs in this chapter. I've missed her so much!
Also: how awesome would that reunion have been to see on screen? DARN YOU, MOVIE STUDIOS.
I know, can you imagine the feeling of Iorek's happy growling through the surround sound? Such a loss 🙁
And what is so terrible about the world of the dead?
What part of WORLD OF THE DEAD makes it sound like Disneyland?
…Actually, it could be part of the Magic Kingdom…
RIGHT
I mean it could totally be awesome.
The Haunted Mansion would be much more realistic.
Epcot Center.
When I read I considered Dust and Angels to be separate things… but that Angels are MADE of Dust.
Make sense?
Yes.
I've been thinking this way too. That dust is cognizant matter. And I think when Balthamos was explaining angels at the beginning of this book he said "matter loves matter" or something like that…so when dust gets together, it creates something more formed and that's an angel.
I agree with this. I think the fact that the Angels told Mary that they WERE Shadows or Dust or whatever confused things, but Dust doesn't always mean Angels.
I wanted to cry again reading about Lyra learning of Lee Scoresby's fate. :'( NEVER GETTING OVER THAT, SORRY. NEVER EVER. The rest of the reunion was so sweet and heartwarming, though, and it's about time I got to see some Lyra POV stuff! Missed her so.
I have to laugh/swat Pullman, though. "Presently" pops up again, not only once, but twice – and on the same page, only a couple very small paragraphs apart. FIND ANOTHER WORD TO USE. xD
It reminds me of Christopher Paulini's liking for the phrase "for a span", only that's worse because repeating a phrase twice every page is more noticeable.
I can't unsee "Presently" now that people here have pointed it out. It's like the page YELLS at me whenever that word happens.
Yes, same here…
I hadn't noticed it before, but since reading about it here, every time it comes up, I have to smile 😀
Lyra learning Lee was dead was like him DYING ALL OVER AGAIN. *weeps forever*
I'm sorry but the Alethiometer being confused always makes me laugh because I have this vision of rebel Angels trying to respond and getting annoyed with each other.
"It will be the death of Dust!"
"NO, IT WON'T – give it here – I'm not letting you respond again- it's the only way to keep Dust alive"
"Oh well, that's CLEAR AS MUD, isn't it, genius?!"
lol at least now we know what happened to Balthamos.
I do confess that I imagined Balthamos as one of the angels. :$
Haha, brilliant! 😀
Hahaha that's EXACTLY what I pictured too. It's like they're kids arguing about what really happened in a fight, and Lyra is just patiently waiting there, like a teacher or parent, waiting for them to calm the fuck down and just tell her what the fuck is going on.
Not much else she can do but VERY funny image. XD
On Dust: A simple way of putting it is that angels equal Dust but Dust doesn't neccesarilly equal angels. This also explains the disparity between the factions of the Authority, as if they were all one giant conscious blob then there would be no need for fighting.
I was also hoping that you'd comment on Lyra's ignorance in regards to Mrs Coulter this chapter, Mark. She doesn't know she was kidnapped, and thinks she got a disease! I'm not sure whether to be happy that she finally has a good memory of one of them or sad that it's based on a lie. The scenario has given me one of my favourite Will moments of the series:
So she didn't know why she'd been asleep all that time. Should he tell her, and betray that memory, even if it was false? No, of course he shouldn't.
Will's childhood, despite being intensely difficult, has given him beautiful memories of the love between himself and his mother. He knows he wouldn't want them taken away for anything in the world, and so the decision is self evident. He wants Lyra to be able to look back with the same fondness for her mother that he does, and even though it's based on a lie, I still find the gesture beautiful.
Yes! I am enjoying the scenes with Lyra and Will so far; they have an interesting dynamic––one that seems to develop the plot much more than if they were alone. However, I do believe Lyra's absence was a good thing, since it brings about those conflicting feelings with Coulter you mentioned. I'm quite impressed that Will's decision to keep the truth quiet fits with his character and background, too.
And Iorek hugs! Awwww! 🙂
When Tialys describes how the lodestone resonator works, the only comparison in my frame of reference is Powder of Sympathy (17th century pseudo-science), but then I'm not a theoretical physicist. I see quantum entanglement is a real (theoretical) thing, though.
Even worse, the alethiometer gave Lyra a sense of emptiness and blankness when she asked what would happen if they didn’t go to the world of the dead.
This is how I see it and let me tell you is a theory based solely on THIS mention, I've got nothing else to go on. I think about FlashForward and what it means for people not to have a flashforward and that's my theory. The future isn't written in stone, you make your path as you go on your way. The alethiometer can't tell you what you don't know yourself, it can't create a path for you if you're not going to move along it, so it can't see anything you're not willing to do. It's telling you "it's your choice, make up your mind." It's also the flashforward thing. And that's as far as I'm willing to share with you until you say something that tells me you understand, otherwise it's just a waste of words. Let me exemplify. A waste of words would be to address the issues of the differences I can see in your thinking as compared to what I learned through theosophy, spiritual philosophy and the likes—
Sorry, I'll leave that unfinished, I can't think straight right now. I just received knews of a close acquaintance dying unexpectedly for no reason at all. I have to leave. I wish I could go to the world of the dead and ask her opinion on her sudden departure.
Ach. My condolences. 🙁
I'm so sorry. 🙁
I'm so sorry.
all the hugs
Echoing the above commenters, I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry for your loss. 🙁
Iorek’s line about the knife having it’s own intentions is totally fascinating to me because it sens me on so many tangents. I instantly jumped to language theory, and how words can have pre-created intentions that can over-ride the intentions they are used with. The discussion of ableist and discriminatory language on this site is a perfect example. But in turn that leads to all “created” things have an intention… But also an infinite ability to be utilised in ways that weren’t intended. Still there are constant consequences to every action and ultimately those are effected both by the active intent of the agent, and the latent intent of the object. Sorry just puzzling.
CONFUSION. I FEEL IT.
No epigraph today? I wanted to comment that every time I read this one I get this stuck in my head:
All your base, your base. Base. Base. All your base. Are belong to us. (probably because that was a meme around the first time I read this. That makes me feel old.)
Yeah, Jaya hasn't posted the past couple of days. I wanted to talk about today's, too, but for non-meme reasons. Boo.
Lots of things haven't made an appearance yet in this book, Mark. You know, like shit getting realer than it ever has before. 🙂
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